Teen sent to court for giving RuneScape money away

Original post by James A

Can you imagine this sort of a case appearing on Judge Judy :rofl:

I would have liked to have seen that :yy:

Original post by Sinsevenln

What, so if I were to develop a 'game' where you could log in and you would get a coin for clicking on a button, and I clicked on that button for 6 years straight, then someone logged into my account BECAUSE I GAVE THEM THE ACCOUNT DETAILS, (this is what happened here, the guy have his account details to the person who stole his gold) then that would constitute going to court? My ass, what an inefficient justice system.

If I let a person use my computer to check their e-mails, and they, knowing full well what they are doing, delete everything on it, including all my university work, is that right?

It is the bolded part which is important - under the computer misuse act, then destroying something virtually can carry real life consequences just as destroying something in real life carries consequences.

Reply 22

Anon9

Hilarious how people dismiss this sort of thing as "only a game", and "lol sad idiots".

This sort of stuff has real value, I am not kidding when I say the buying and selling of runescape money between players is a multi million dollar business, players often spend over 1000$ on the game, and again before you laugh, it is often a good investment, as it can be sold on for more as players use that money to make more.
The game has stuff like player run casinos which handle tens of thousands of pounds worth of stuff per bet, its serious business.

There have been more serious incidences of people having runescape gold stolen at gun point from them.
Imagine this in the same way you might imagine someone giving out someones bittcoins or emptying their paypal, or just smashing their car up and causing damage, not only was he right to call the police, if it was a significant amount she should get a criminal record.

Reply 23

lbsf1

2

Guys, the guy took virtual currency that has real value, and thus is theft.

I agree its very petty. I would be like me taking you to court for stealing my fridge magnet. However it IS theft.

Reply 24

MostUncivilised

3

Original post by joey11223

I think these were so much is online virtual property is important, it may "just a game" but if someone spends a significant amount of effort to get in-game resources which have a real world value (in-game gold selling) then I think it warrants the courts involvement, though for computer misuse as was the case here.

This. And the fact that this game currency has a convertible value means that it is property. In the same way, you might own certain derivatives that have only a notional value in the real world; it doesn't mean they can be stolen at will. I think some people have a rather unsophisticated understanding of property and value

Reply 25

Original post by lbsf1

Guys, the guy took virtual currency that has real value, and thus is theft.

I agree its very petty. I would be like me taking you to court for stealing my fridge magnet. However it IS theft.

I don't think he was charged under the act of theft / stealing - he was charged under Computer Misuse Act. Even if it were something which had no value (e.g. if my university work on my computer was deleted by someone), then accessing and/or modifying something on a computer which does not belong to you (or you have no right to use) with malicious intent is illegal.

The issue with assigning real value to the gold is that it is against the contract you agreed to when you played game to sell it for real money, so while it has a certain 'real world' value, to claim that value you have to break the contract allowing you to play the game. I am not saying that makes it right, or that it doesn't matter - just saying it is hard in a legal sense to assign it monetary value.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 26

cleveradam

9

I got lured for items/gp back in the days fairly often (I didn't cry/moan about losing online gold/items),
this in itself just proves how games have really becoming irl money orientated more than entertainment.

Reply 27

MostUncivilised

3

Original post by Anon9

Imagine this in the same way you might imagine someone giving out someones bittcoins or emptying their paypal, or just smashing their car up and causing damage, not only was he right to call the police, if it was a significant amount she should get a criminal record.

Exactly. If someone is willing to do this to someone's virtual property, they're probably sociopathic enough to do it to real property. It takes a profound lack of respect for other people, bordering on psychopathy, to actually do something like this.

Reply 28

cleveradam

9

Original post by MostUncivilised

Exactly. If someone is willing to do this to someone's virtual property, they're probably sociopathic enough to do it to real property. It takes a profound lack of respect for other people, bordering on psychopathy, to actually do something like this.

I agree that it is morally unacceptable. However, the game in itself which I played for 4 years DOES NOT ALLOW real world trading - selling online items/coins for real world currency. Additionally, account sharing is prohibited and is a rule of the game.
Luring in the game is fully aloud - luring someone into a place to get their items after killing them.
If I were to be genuinely honest with you, there are over 100s of accounts that get hacked each day on Runescape, I myself got hacked a few times over the 4 years I played because of stupidity. At the end of the day the girl was stupid to either share accounts with her friend in the first place and was breaking the rules. Furthermore, RWT is prohibited and can result in life-time ban from the game itself and a fine from Jagex who own the game. She got what was coming and I can't see why the person who stole her items is being jailed.

Reply 29

Original post by rmhumphries

I would have liked to have seen that :yy:

If I let a person use my computer to check their e-mails, and they, knowing full well what they are doing, delete everything on it, including all my university work, is that right?

It is the bolded part which is important - under the computer misuse act, then destroying something virtually can carry real life consequences just as destroying something in real life carries consequences.

Your analogy is irrelevant because the person gave away their details knowing full well that this could happen. Silly law.

Reply 30

The Mad Dog

3

I wonder if @rootinaboxes mate gave him the Runescape passwords.

Reply 31

Original post by cleveradam

I agree that it is morally unacceptable. However, the game in itself which I played for 4 years DOES NOT ALLOW real world trading - selling online items/coins for real world currency. Additionally, account sharing is prohibited and is a rule of the game.
Luring in the game is fully aloud - luring someone into a place to get their items after killing them.
If I were to be genuinely honest with you, there are over 100s of accounts that get hacked each day on Runescape, I myself got hacked a few times over the 4 years I played because of stupidity. At the end of the day the girl was stupid to either share accounts with her friend in the first place and was breaking the rules. Furthermore, RWT is prohibited and can result in life-time ban from the game itself and a fine from Jagex who own the game. She got what was coming and I can't see why the person who stole her items is being jailed.

I don't think the account was shared, I think the person knew the password to the computer, and was able to 'auto-login' to the game.

daily mail article

Stuart John, defending, said: 'He saw an opportunity to carry out a spiteful act - he knew the password to the computer because he had used it before.

The person was charged for malicious accessing a computer without permission.

Original post by Sinsevenln

Your analogy is irrelevant because the person gave away their details knowing full well that this could happen. Silly law.

That is irrelevant. In my analogy I gave the person access to the computer. In this example, the person had the password to the computer from using it before. Nothing has been said about the game login details - which I assume were set to auto-login. The law just means that things you do online can have the same effect as what you do offline. A close friend of mine has a key to my place - if she came and used her key to get in, and then destroyed something of mine - she would still get done for criminal damage, despite me giving her a key.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 32

Anon9

Original post by cleveradam

I agree that it is morally unacceptable. However, the game in itself which I played for 4 years DOES NOT ALLOW real world trading - selling online items/coins for real world currency. Additionally, account sharing is prohibited and is a rule of the game.
Luring in the game is fully aloud - luring someone into a place to get their items after killing them.
If I were to be genuinely honest with you, there are over 100s of accounts that get hacked each day on Runescape, I myself got hacked a few times over the 4 years I played because of stupidity. At the end of the day the girl was stupid to either share accounts with her friend in the first place and was breaking the rules. Furthermore, RWT is prohibited and can result in life-time ban from the game itself and a fine from Jagex who own the game. She got what was coming and I can't see why the person who stole her items is being jailed.

The owners of runescape don't have a legal leg to stand on if you sell your runescape gold, courts have multiple times accepted the real world value of it (in cases such as people being held at knive/gun point for example).
You are right in that they can ban you from the game, it is their game they can do what they like, its in the terms and conditions that you can be banned. They cannot however 'fine' you for selling it.

Runescape gold has easily accessible and real market value, so stealing it is like stealing someones paypal money.
A lot of people make livings from selling runescape gold, and the owners cannot legally do anything about it, other than occasionally forcing them to change their names of their companies to not include trademarks owned by them.

Reply 33

Original post by rmhumphries

I don't think the account was shared, I think the person knew the password to the computer, and was able to 'auto-login' to the game.

The person was charged for malicious accessing a computer without permission.

That is irrelevant. In my analogy I gave the person access to the computer. In this example, the person had the password to the computer from using it before. Nothing has been said about the game login details - which I assume were set to auto-login. The law just means that things you do online can have the same effect as what you do offline. A close friend of mine has a key to my place - if she came and used her key to get in, and then destroyed something of mine - she would still get done for criminal damage, despite me giving her a key.

There's no such thing as auto-login in this game, so don't assume things. It is utterly irrelevant because the details were obviously shared. Let's send this person to virtual prison as a compromise. :lol:

Reply 34

Original post by Sinsevenln

There's no such thing as auto-login in this game, so don't assume things. It is utterly irrelevant because the details were obviously shared. Let's send this person to virtual prison as a compromise. :lol:

Even if details are shared, that doesn't make it irrelevant. I have never paid the game, so I don't know exact details, my next assumption would be the password is the same password for the computer. The point is moot though - just because someone has your password does not then protect them if they take malicious actions.

Reply 35

miser

20

I think it's quite reasonable for this to go to court. Intangible goods are goods nonetheless, and there is a well-established precedent for court disputes over them - that the intangible is part of a game is of no real consequence.

Reply 36

SebMurphy

Original post by Chlorophile

Just found this beautiful comment on that page:

There's something about Daily Mail readers...

That is certainly a fine example of a literary masterpiece.

Reply 37

Original post by rmhumphries

Even if details are shared, that doesn't make it irrelevant. I have never paid the game, so I don't know exact details, my next assumption would be the password is the same password for the computer. The point is moot though - just because someone has your password does not then protect them if they take malicious actions.

I repeat to you, I have played it for years on end in the past, and what you are suggesting is irrelevant, why can't you just accept that? You would also have to know their username or email to log in depending on when the account was created, so there we go. You take the risk if you decide to share your account with someone, and this isn't the first time account sharing has happened, many have gone through losses due to it and none of it has ended up in ridiculous court drama.

Reply 38

Psyk

16

Original post by Sinsevenln

I repeat to you, I have played it for years on end in the past, and what you are suggesting is irrelevant, why can't you just accept that? You would also have to know their username or email to log in depending on when the account was created, so there we go. You take the risk if you decide to share your account with someone, and this isn't the first time account sharing has happened, many have gone through losses due to it and none of it has ended up in ridiculous court drama.

It still depends on the purpose for sharing the account details. If the owner said they could play the game on their account, without specifying what they can do in the game, then you're probably right. After all giving away your gold is a valid thing to do in the context of the game. But if they were given the account details for a specific reason then doing anything else is illegal.

Reply 39