The Student Room Group

Cyber schools

I have always toyed around with the idea of cyber schools in my head. Schools where you learn all the content from video lectures and then apply your knowledge on standardised tests (preferably online). Instead of this being the exception, what if this was the norm?

You may have sought the help of KhanAcademy and Examsolutions in your academic life. On many occasions, they are able to convey the content in a much better way than your normal teachers. They can express the ideas clearly and many students have found their tutelage immensely helpful.

So why not replace teachers for the most part? Instead of learning the content from a teacher, you could learn the content from a virtual teacher.

I believe that this poses some significant advantages. First and foremost, every student can have access to high quality education. At this moment in time, there is a gap in the quality of education between private schools and state schools. If the idea of cyber schools was implemented, every child could have access to a professional teacher who is well versed in the subject. The days of being stuck with an awful teacher could be over!

Secondly, this could free up the time of many teachers. Right now, teachers cater to a wide variety of students in each classroom. Individual attention is the privilege of a few private schools and some top state schools, If you are in a bog standard state school, it can be quite difficult to receive individual attention and support to help in your academic advancement. Teachers simply don't have the time. But what if they didn't have to teach all the content to students?

The students could come in with their queries and the teacher would be able to offer support for each individual. If online standardised tests were implemented, teachers would be able to discover which areas pupils are having difficulty with and tailor supplementary lessons if need be. Collecting the data of all the students in the nation could also help people figure out what areas all pupils are lacking in and begin to tackle those issues.

In the United Kingdom, we certainly have the technology and the expertise needed to implement something like this. Many universities are now creating resources where you can access lectures and past exam papers. The idea works.

What could be the possible disadvantages? Reduced communication is one, but other than that, I really cannot think of any.

What do you think about 'cyber schools'?
Reply 1
Original post by Omniscience
I have always toyed around with the idea of cyber schools in my head. Schools where you learn all the content from video lectures and then apply your knowledge on standardised tests (preferably online). Instead of this being the exception, what if this was the norm?

You may have sought the help of KhanAcademy and Examsolutions in your academic life. On many occasions, they are able to convey the content in a much better way than your normal teachers. They can express the ideas clearly and many students have found their tutelage immensely helpful.

So why not replace teachers for the most part? Instead of learning the content from a teacher, you could learn the content from a virtual teacher.

I believe that this poses some significant advantages. First and foremost, every student can have access to high quality education. At this moment in time, there is a gap in the quality of education between private schools and state schools. If the idea of cyber schools was implemented, every child could have access to a professional teacher who is well versed in the subject. The days of being stuck with an awful teacher could be over!

Secondly, this could free up the time of many teachers. Right now, teachers cater to a wide variety of students in each classroom. Individual attention is the privilege of a few private schools and some top state schools, If you are in a bog standard state school, it can be quite difficult to receive individual attention and support to help in your academic advancement. Teachers simply don't have the time. But what if they didn't have to teach all the content to students?

The students could come in with their queries and the teacher would be able to offer support for each individual. If online standardised tests were implemented, teachers would be able to discover which areas pupils are having difficulty with and tailor supplementary lessons if need be. Collecting the data of all the students in the nation could also help people figure out what areas all pupils are lacking in and begin to tackle those issues.

In the United Kingdom, we certainly have the technology and the expertise needed to implement something like this. Many universities are now creating resources where you can access lectures and past exam papers. The idea works.

What could be the possible disadvantages? Reduced communication is one, but other than that, I really cannot think of any.

What do you think about 'cyber schools'?


I like the cyber school idea but there are some disadvantages

Firstly some students want practicality in learning. There's visual, kinetic and audio learners. Some students cannot learn by just looking at a video boot example, in chemistry, explaining the colour image is not the same as watching it yourself.

Secondly, if teachers have a lot of free time, then they're more likely to run out of jobs since they won't be teaching as much and teachers do like teachings.

Thirdly, imagine the headaches and health issues that can occur because of constantly looking at Visual images. It can also affect their eyes.
Reply 2
Original post by SyedaK
I like the cyber school idea but there are some disadvantages

Firstly some students want practicality in learning. There's visual, kinetic and audio learners. Some students cannot learn by just looking at a video boot example, in chemistry, explaining the colour image is not the same as watching it yourself.

Secondly, if teachers have a lot of free time, then they're more likely to run out of jobs since they won't be teaching as much and teachers do like teachings.

Thirdly, imagine the headaches and health issues that can occur because of constantly looking at Visual images. It can also affect their eyes.


That's true. I am probably a visual learner, hence my interest for this cyber schools idea. I hadn't really considered the other types of learners. A random idea popped into my head. The Xbox Kinect incorporates movement into game playing right? What if something like that could be incorporated into a cyber school for kinesthetic learners.

I thought that education is about the students, not the teachers. Sure, they may be redundancies, but if it results in the improvement of education for children, isn't it worth it?

The last issue could be removed by taking regular breaks away from the computer.
Original post by Omniscience

I believe that this poses some significant advantages. First and foremost, every student can have access to high quality education. At this moment in time, there is a gap in the quality of education between private schools and state schools. If the idea of cyber schools was implemented, every child could have access to a professional teacher who is well versed in the subject. The days of being stuck with an awful teacher could be over!


But you are assuming these online videos/teaching would be free? Wouldn't "better" teachers charge for their videos so that only rich parents could afford to buy access to the videos? And rich parents can still pay for private lessons which would be another advantage. I think there will always be a gap.


Secondly, this could free up the time of many teachers. Right now, teachers cater to a wide variety of students in each classroom. Individual attention is the privilege of a few private schools and some top state schools, If you are in a bog standard state school, it can be quite difficult to receive individual attention and support to help in your academic advancement. Teachers simply don't have the time. But what if they didn't have to teach all the content to students?


I've met plenty of dedicated teachers who would give up their lunch break or after school so I could talk to them - but only if you asked for it or they could see you are really dedicated to learning. I went to an ordinary comprehensive state school. I remember when I was ill and off school for months, one of my teachers drove to my house to pass on some practise exams and notes to help me catch up. When I went back to school following my ill health, I got a fair amount of individual attention during my free periods to help me catch up with not being in school for half the year. Not all of my subject teachers did this, but others were really helpful and without them I couldn't have got such a high grade in their subject at A level.

I agree that a bit of individual attention is useful to help you perform better and I think state school class sizes are often to big.

Again, if you put too many people out of work by giving teachers all this free time, then the economy will end up even worse.



Other disadvantages include:

Not being able to access resources, e.g. science practicals, engineering practicals etc. or materials e.g. for art you might need clay as well as a clay oven

No chance to interact with other people your own age. It's good to learn to cope with people who you don't always get on with as you'll encounter this at work all the time. If you're sat in front of a computer all day, you miss out the chance to meet friends in real life.

No chance to access sport facilities. Mandatory PE sessions are probably a good idea - for some people it's the only exercise they ever get!

Some poorer homes do not have access to computers let alone the internet. What would happen to these students?

What happens if your computer breaks and it takes a few weeks to get a new one? You will fall behind.



Distance learning courses are fine at University level, because they are designed to be flexible for those who cannot travel to uni (e.g. family commitments) or are learning whilst they are working.

I don't think cyber schools should replace normal schools. However, I would call for an improvement in the state school sector and also for videos to be used as supplementary materials for when you need clarification on a topic you don't understand (e.g. free YouTube videos can be useful).
Original post by SyedaK
I like the cyber school idea but there are some disadvantages

Firstly some students want practicality in learning. There's visual, kinetic and audio learners. Some students cannot learn by just looking at a video boot example, in chemistry, explaining the colour image is not the same as watching it yourself.

Secondly, if teachers have a lot of free time, then they're more likely to run out of jobs since they won't be teaching as much and teachers do like teachings.

Thirdly, imagine the headaches and health issues that can occur because of constantly looking at Visual images. It can also affect their eyes.


Firstly, there is no evidence that learning styles exist. Furthermore, even if they did, or something auditory/kinaesthetic needed to be taught then a) videos have sound as well as video, and b) they could tell the viewer what to do.

Secondly, the purpose of schools is not to give teachers jobs.


Another issue with cyber-schools is ensuring that everyone attends - how do you make a reluctant learner pay attention when it's a pre-recorded video? You rely on learners being active in their learning - this would seriously disadvantage many learners.

Lastly, you struggle in this model to provide individualised learning. Learning is fairly standardised at the moment, but what if a pupil struggles with something - they may need to interact with a proffesional teacher.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 5
Original post by SilverstarDJ
But you are assuming these online videos/teaching would be free? Wouldn't "better" teachers charge for their videos so that only rich parents could afford to buy access to the videos? And rich parents can still pay for private lessons which would be another advantage. I think there will always be a gap.



I've met plenty of dedicated teachers who would give up their lunch break or after school so I could talk to them - but only if you asked for it or they could see you are really dedicated to learning. I went to an ordinary comprehensive state school. I remember when I was ill and off school for months, one of my teachers drove to my house to pass on some practise exams and notes to help me catch up. When I went back to school following my ill health, I got a fair amount of individual attention during my free periods to help me catch up with not being in school for half the year. Not all of my subject teachers did this, but others were really helpful and without them I couldn't have got such a high grade in their subject at A level.

I agree that a bit of individual attention is useful to help you perform better and I think state school class sizes are often to big.

Again, if you put too many people out of work by giving teachers all this free time, then the economy will end up even worse.



Other disadvantages include:

Not being able to access resources, e.g. science practicals, engineering practicals etc. or materials e.g. for art you might need clay as well as a clay oven

No chance to interact with other people your own age. It's good to learn to cope with people who you don't always get on with as you'll encounter this at work all the time. If you're sat in front of a computer all day, you miss out the chance to meet friends in real life.

No chance to access sport facilities. Mandatory PE sessions are probably a good idea - for some people it's the only exercise they ever get!

Some poorer homes do not have access to computers let alone the internet. What would happen to these students?

What happens if your computer breaks and it takes a few weeks to get a new one? You will fall behind.



Distance learning courses are fine at University level, because they are designed to be flexible for those who cannot travel to uni (e.g. family commitments) or are learning whilst they are working.

I don't think cyber schools should replace normal schools. However, I would call for an improvement in the state school sector and also for videos to be used as supplementary materials for when you need clarification on a topic you don't understand (e.g. free YouTube videos can be useful).


Sure, I'm not denying that the gap will be completely eradicated. Perhaps I didn't clarify this or even mention it. I was suggesting that the government could produce these videos so that even the worse off schools could have access to high quality educational material. If schools wish to, they could plan their own lessons.

The matter of individual attention varies from school to school. You were quite lucky to receive individual attention to such an extent, but that is also due to your illness. For an average student struggling in class, would they benefit more if the teacher had less work or more work? I'd think they'd benefit more from the former. Normal pupils would be able to receive individual attention, thereby helping them solve any issues they are having with their work.

Frankly, I don't see why it would make sense to plan lessons and spend quite a lot of time if there was an alternative teaching facility available.

Many people wouldn't have to be put out of work. Since teachers would have more time, they could simply invest it into the pupils instead of planning and delivering lessons.

The disadvantage of not being able to access resources is real. So if the subject is practical, there could be more work based in the classroom that outside of this. I'm not suggesting that 'cyber schools' are appropriate for all subjects. For subjects like art and music, other resources are required. Students could come into a building for this and do the work there.

About the concern of not making friends, I think that is somewhat exaggerated. Many of the people I have observed communicate a lot more outside of school than within school. But I can understand your view as they often make these friends within school premises. By the way, I am not suggesting that pupils shouldn't come into contact with each other. If they wish to, they should indeed do that. What I was saying was that content delivery could be facilitated by the Internet and concomitant technologies.

The lack of exercise may be a concern. But is it a school's responsibility to ensure that their pupils exercise? No. It all comes back to the family. The family should be the ones encouraging the children to exercise. The school nor the government should act as babysitters.

The percentage of families who do not have access to the internet is very low. I live in a poorer suburb and I see many students with BlackBerries and iPhones. If a family couldn't genuinely afford a computer, then they could simply go to school and learn from the school computers. The government provides enough funding to enable schools to purchase computers. Again, if your computer breaks, you could simply go to the school and use the computers there.
Reply 6
Original post by PythianLegume
Firstly, there is no evidence that learning styles exist. Furthermore, even if they did, or something auditory/kinaesthetic needed to be taught then a) videos have sound as well as video, and b) they could tell the viewer what to do.

Secondly, the purpose of schools is not to give teachers jobs.


Another issue with cyber-schools is ensuring that everyone attends - how do you make a reluctant learner pay attention when it's a pre-recorded video? You rely on learners being active in their learning - this would seriously disadvantage many learners.

Lastly, you struggle in this model to provide individualised learning. Learning is fairly standardised at the moment, but what if a pupil struggles with something - they may need to interact with a proffesional teacher.


The issue with participation is real. Although I would like to say that it isn't worth educating those who cannot be bothered, I can understand why the government would want everyone to be educated. The attention (or the lack thereof) could be measured by tests after each video. But creating attention is more difficult. Some expert teachers like Mr Khan of KhanAcademy create interest in the topics mentioned in the video. I have no answer to this one.

I address the issue of personal attention. In fact, I think that such a system would increase individual help. What I am not proposing is an abolition of schools, but rather the removal of the content delivery system by teachers. I proposed the teaching of content via online resources and then the teacher could work in smaller groups to help those facing problems. This system would free up time as the teachers wouldn't have to prepare and deliver lessons. They could analyse the results of the tests and figure out which parts the students are finding the most difficult.
Reply 8
Original post by Omniscience

If teachers didn't have to spend time teaching the content, wouldn't they save time? They would only have to concentrate on the sections that pupils were struggling with.


If teacher's don't teach they won't be working any more or for not many hours.


You could figure out what the class is struggling with. There could be online tests after the videos to test the understanding of the topics. They could be automatically marked or sent to the teacher, who then could mark essays and the like. The teacher would be able to analyse the data of the entire class and find out what they are struggling with.

You don't need computer data to work out what the class is struggling with.


There is a broad enough subject range. You can teach English, Mathematics, all the Sciences (my-GCSEScience.com does this right now), History, Geography, ICT and Languages.

Music and art are not common subjects at GCSE.


Did you not do any experiments in science? We did experiments in biology, physics and chemistry. I don't think cyber schools could replace this subject.

Music and art were quite popular in my school... and certainly mandatory from years 7-9.

Cyber schools don't have to exist outside of an actual school. The systems of the cyber school could easily be implemented within a normal school. So all the content is delivered by the online system and students can access resources from the school if they wish to.


If a cyber school can't exist outside of an actual school because it cannot offer all subjects at GCSE, what's the point? Yes, use technology to augment lessons through videos, online tests etc. - that is a brilliant idea and already used - but by ONE person deciding how something should be taught you are stifling some good teachers who have their own methods of teaching, putting others out of their job, whilst not enabling lessons to be tailored to a specific class.

The cost of internet access can be subsidised by the government. The government already provides all sorts of benefits, so I don't see why including something that is beneficial to poorer students would be much of a liability.

Seeing as the welfare sector is facing cuts, I doubt this would happen, sadly. It's not just internet access you'd have to provide, by the computer and the software too.


I don't suppose that such a system will be implemented for the next few years. Perhaps they will implement 'cyber universities' (they are already in the beginning stages of sharing lectures), but not cyber schools. I guess people reach a level of responsibility when they're 18 that enables them to work from home and have the dedication and commitment to bother learning.


If by 'cyber unis' you mean long distance learning - this is already taking place at the OpenUni. These work well as they are normally for subjects which don't require specialist equipment (hence, the amount of distance degrees is far fewer than other degrees) and they aren't really interactive lessons because you're not trying to keep everyone's attention and make it enjoyable so people listen.

I had one lecturer who posted videos of his entire module. I can't tell you how boring this was compared to a normal lecture (which aren't always interesting anyway) - and when you asked him a question he didn't know as I couldn't remember what he said years ago in the recording :frown:
Reply 10
Original post by Omniscience
I have always toyed around with the idea of cyber schools in my head. Schools where you learn all the content from video lectures and then apply your knowledge on standardised tests (preferably online). Instead of this being the exception, what if this was the norm?

You may have sought the help of KhanAcademy and Examsolutions in your academic life. On many occasions, they are able to convey the content in a much better way than your normal teachers. They can express the ideas clearly and many students have found their tutelage immensely helpful.

So why not replace teachers for the most part? Instead of learning the content from a teacher, you could learn the content from a virtual teacher.

I believe that this poses some significant advantages. First and foremost, every student can have access to high quality education. At this moment in time, there is a gap in the quality of education between private schools and state schools. If the idea of cyber schools was implemented, every child could have access to a professional teacher who is well versed in the subject. The days of being stuck with an awful teacher could be over!

Secondly, this could free up the time of many teachers. Right now, teachers cater to a wide variety of students in each classroom. Individual attention is the privilege of a few private schools and some top state schools, If you are in a bog standard state school, it can be quite difficult to receive individual attention and support to help in your academic advancement. Teachers simply don't have the time. But what if they didn't have to teach all the content to students?

The students could come in with their queries and the teacher would be able to offer support for each individual. If online standardised tests were implemented, teachers would be able to discover which areas pupils are having difficulty with and tailor supplementary lessons if need be. Collecting the data of all the students in the nation could also help people figure out what areas all pupils are lacking in and begin to tackle those issues.

In the United Kingdom, we certainly have the technology and the expertise needed to implement something like this. Many universities are now creating resources where you can access lectures and past exam papers. The idea works.

What could be the possible disadvantages? Reduced communication is one, but other than that, I really cannot think of any.

What do you think about 'cyber schools'?


The problem us this implies people learn just by looking, listening and then doing a set task. It removes the possibility for interaction with learning, which is so so vital.

As examples, of which any teacher could give hundreds;
A child gives a suggestion in class about the meaning of a word. Their definition is inaccurate but the teacher uses that to address a misconception, which may have been held by many students in the class.
A child demonstrates their method for carrying out a mathematical calculation to a friend, who discovers a new way of thinking about it which they hadn't considered before and which makes things clearer to them.

Without classes you can't have instant feedback, debate, discussion, you miss the opportunity to develop so many social skills, you miss out on opportunities to simply explore and play with resources, you can't pool ideas and develop them, you don't have pupil talk which is incredibly important, and you miss out on the chance to push students and develop their ideas through dialogue and appropriate questioning. Personalised learning is severely diminished and harder to implement, and you have no way to judge a pupils progress our understanding other than looking at a piece of work they did without you present, which frankly tells you very little.

You also lose the fun of playing with friends or messing around with them in secondary school, meeting a wide variety of people, singing, games, learning things on a whim because you're interested in them, group work, and just being with other people. That idea of education sounds horrible to me.

Most people don't just absorb what they're told in to a bank of knowledge, they need more than that.

Xxx

PS Can you tell I'm an early years teacher in training?

Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 11
You are coming from a very narrow perspective i.e. you are/ were an able student with high predicted grades and a good work ethic, you may have only experienced one or two school environments, and you will probably have less experience of seeing students from different socio-economic backgrounds.

This wouldn't work for a large majority of students who don't have the work ethic and don't have the ability to work independently. One of the key drives in teaching in recent years is the idea of independent learning, however that takes years to develop and many students even by the end of GCSEs still cannot work independently. Many lower sets have to be spoon fed the smallest amount of knowledge. Some students still struggle with technology. The scope is too large, children are too diverse and I think it would cause more harm than good.

Good idea in theory though!

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