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Reply 80
Why can't he admit his ideas are a pile of bullocks and give up.


Coursework is important, and uni is largely coursework based and it will give people the necessary practice so hopefully by then it will be nature. Plus some people might not fare well in exams, but might be excellent students when it comes to coursework, why should they be penalised?
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 81
Original post by Albino
I don't think we should give up on them, but it needs to be made clear to them that if they are not willing to learn or at least try to, then they should face consequences such as being excluded from class ect.

I have also never encountered the need for art or R.E but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't have learnt it. It develops other skills such as building imagination or being able to develop arguments. Also, relating to Child B, it means that he has no concept of problem solving just the ability to add up change efficiently, in the real world we have calculators for that. Also how about if Child A wants to go on to study something like the sciences? He will be limited as sometimes stuff like physics requires logic ect. and not just arithmetical skills.

Making GCSEs more difficult would get students ready for A-level, which I believe is a massive step from GCSEs, and it puts it into context for the less performing students that they should really consider whether they want to go further in education.

You're not really getting it. Rather than teach a watered down version of all R.E just teach the core. Giving someone a calculator does not make one good at maths. There's more to maths than adding numbers you know. I said in my first post that if the child does well enough they can move up to the other qualification. It's basically foundation and higher GCSE with the sets determining which one you do they key difference is rather than the lower sets getting a low GCSE grade saying they did everything but a really watered down version they get a separate qualification that shows they are still well versed in the core disciplines.
Original post by Albino
What would be the point in learning just basic arithmetic? It's not the only thing that's useful in maths in everyday life. Instead I think teaching standards should improve, 50% of students getting 5 C's shouldn't mean we will stick them in foundation so maybe next year we can have 80% because the quality of education hasn't improved. As a society we should be better educated at things, and its not like the government are asking you to do subjects you hate for the rest of your life, you just have to do your best and move on. Also probably going to get hate but whatever; half the people that aren't achieving 5 C's aren't even trying, if I walked into a set 6 in my school the day before an exam, most kids would be on their phones not even listening to the teacher, the others would be truanting. If they don't give a damn about their lives I don't think we should bother helping them.


I agreed with your point up until you said that we shouldn't bother helping people in set 6. Yes, the majority do not want to learn and don't give one about the subjects. But a lot of them have various reasons and they shouldn't all be tarnished with the same brush. When I did my GCSE's I did all Higher Papers and was predicted A's and B's. All apart from Science. I was awful at the subject and didn't do well in my year 9 tests which determined what set I was going to be in. Therefore, I got put in one of the bottom sets for Science and the teaching was appalling, I didn't yearn a single thing all year and the teacher gave up on the whole class, he would sit there drinking his coffee while we were given text books to go through, I had to self-teach the subject and even then I only got a D. Perhaps the government should be worrying about the lower sets and the teaching standards.
Original post by peter12345
Unpopular opinion number 2. GCSEs are actually too hard. Only 50% of pupils actually get the benchmark 5 Cs, does this mean that half the country are dumbasses? You could look at it that way or you could look at it from the angle that perhaps not everybody is academically inclined and trying to force everyone to the same academic standard is only going to cause disappointment and failure in people's lives. I know one guy who got all Gs in his GCSEs, he went to college to do music production and now he is doing really well. He makes money from his tracks and he attends De Montfort University. But according to the government and their standards he is an unemployable retard.

My recommendations are to split higher GCSE and foundation GCSE into two completely separate qualifications. The first one is the basic level that employers should be forced to accept. It will have no poetry or algebra, just the bare minimum spelling, grammar, arithmetic etc. As for stuff like history it should have a really watered down overview of what happened in WWII etc. Shelf stackers don't need to know the details of the Soviet polititcal system. In the higher one it will have all the detail necessary for higher education. Kids won't have to make tough decisions over which one to choose because they would be allowed to move between qualifications just like how you can move up and down a set currently.

You may ask what is the difference between this foundation qualification and good old foundation GCSE? The difference is that Foundation GCSE still tries to teach everything but a really dumbed down version. Therefore it ends up teaching a lot of useless information and not teaching anything rigorously. One of the exam questions for geometry on a foundation maths paper was "draw lines of symmetry on a rectangle". Seriously what is the point? May as well forget geometry altogether and spend more time on arithmetic.



5 C or above is not 'THE' Benchmark , it is 'A' benchmark

the reason it is focused on is primarily 2 fold

1. it is the historical (minimum) performance for a Grammar School pupil / represents a correlation with the before O level ' School certificate'

2.it is the gateway to direct access to level 3 study in the vast majority cases - whether that is A levels, AVCE, Advanced GNVQ, NC/ND or a level 3 or 3 to 4 Apprenticeship

it's also a benchmark which displays a full range of values from the lowest of the low sink estate ex secondary modern with 5 A*- C figures in the teens through to the highest performing Grammars and private / Public schools with 98% + 5 - A*-C

as i said in a previous post we need to consider a terminal vs progression prep version for some subjects at GCSE - i.e. a 'numeracy' focused maths qualification whicvh it is possible to get a decent grade in without all the preparation for A levle / STEM further study in the normal Maths GCSE
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 84
Many people are missing the reason he is doing this...

He has recently changed the difficulty of the assessments, especially with the reduction in coursework and less modular assessment. Therefore the grades are naturally going to decrease. On the face of it that would make it look like Gove's policies have actually reduced the educational performances at GCSE. Therefore by changing to a new system of 'numbers' he is able to avoid people comparing previous GCSE performances to the current 'I level' performances as the results will be more difficult to correlate.

It is all about him saving his own skin, he has no interest in the general achievement and welfare of students, and to me he is a cancer on the educational system that I do care about.
Reply 85
Original post by zippyRN
5 C or above is not 'THE' Benchmark , it is 'A' benchmark

the reason it is focused on is primarily 2 fold

1. it is the historical (minimum) performance for a Grammar School pupil / represents a correlation with the before O level ' School certificate'

2.it is the gateway to direct access to level 3 study in the vast majority cases - whether that is A levels, AVCE, Advanced GNVQ, NC/ND or a level 3 or 3 to 4 Apprenticeship

it's also a benchmark which displays a full range of values from the lowest of the low sink estate ex secondary modern with 5 A*- C figures in the teens through to the highest performing Grammars and private / Public schools with 98% + 5 - A*-C

as i said in a previous post we need to consider a terminal vs progression prep version for some subjects at GCSE - i.e. a 'numeracy' focused maths qualification whicvh it is possible to get a decent grade in without all the preparation for A levle / STEM further study in the normal Maths GCSE

What the **** are you talking about? English please.
i think course work should be stopped because the student isnt completing it on their own. People will have their parents and friends help them whereas some people may have uneducated parents and are at a disadvantage. I dont see the point of having number grades but keep the letter grades. Instead of changing the whole system, just make the boundaries higher and include harder topics in the exam. Students that work harder will obtain the higher grades and those who dont will need to try harder.
GCSEs are pointless in my opinion. They do not prepare the kids for employment, whether as coursework helps them to work to deadlines and complete work to a good standard, constantly throughout the year. A person can take lessons for granted all year long, then 2 weeks before the exam thy can revise and achieve an A*, imagine trying to do that at work, you'd get sacked.


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Original post by peter12345
What the **** are you talking about? English please.


i do despair for you if your knowledge and understanding of a topic is so shallow you can;t grasp some basic concepts,

i shall re -iterate

the 5 A*-C bench mark represents the expected performance of a Grammar School pupil at the the time the GCSE was introduced, post 1944 Education act Grammar schools were supposed to provide education for the top 25 -30% of the cohort.

The GCE O - level which was the terminal qualification for Grammar schools represents a level 2 in the NQF qualification - as do GCSEs at A*-C

Prior to the GSCE there were two 'school leaving' exams that could be taken at 16

the GCE O-level and the the CSE

the O -level is a level 2 qualification and broadly equates to A*-C at GCSE

The CSE is primarily a level 1 qualification and grades 2 -5 represent D-G at GSCE

a Grade 1 pass at CSE is deemed to be a level 2 qualification and equivalent to a Lower graded O -level pass


there is a full 'basket' of benchmarks at 16 not just 5 A*-C, although , as I explained this often quoted especially because of the range of performance between the best and worst schools in a district / region / England and Wales from schools with low teens % of 5 -A*-C - often 'sink estate' ex secondary moderns through the the mixture of Grammar and Selective Private schools who deliver 98+% at 5 A*-C .

the full basket of benchmarks for GCSE includes

1 + A*-G
5 + A*-G
1+ A*-C
5 + a*-C
and 8 or 9+ A*-C

as well as value added scores ...
For some subjects, like maths, exams work pretty well, however for other subjects, like history, exams test memory.
I personally think a good way to assess somebody, which is in no way cost effective, or economically sound xD would be an 'interview' style situation. The exam board could employ experts in that subject (not the student's teacher) to go into schools and ask students to explain things, the time limit could be flexible to allow the marker to see how well the student actually understands things. For moderation purposes there could be a couple of people in the room, or it could be filmed. I think this could work well for subjects like sciences, history, geography, English lit....though maybe less well for arts.

I think there needs to be some kind of coursework like thing for art, DT, music, drama etc though
At a guess, is it I for Introductory?
What is I levels, i dont even know what that is? Intermediate Levels?
Reply 92
Original post by OMGWTFBBQ
At a guess, is it I for Introductory?



Original post by study beats
What is I levels, i dont even know what that is? Intermediate Levels?


Short for "I am completely awful at my job" is most fitting
I don't understand why it needs to keep changing. Sure, every system will be flawed, but children aren't going to get exponentially brighter (without genetic help), so why not just leave it?

If we still had O-levels they would still be perfectly rigorous exams, there would be a massive store of past papers to try, the treasury would be billions of pounds of administration fees better off, and generations of school children wouldn't have been reduced to nervous wrecks by a continous changing of the goalposts.
Reply 94
Original post by TenOfThem
You really do not see an issue with a student being an 8 at the end of KS3 and a 7 at the end of KS4?

You do not think that will cause any confusion for parents and/or students?


Not if it's explained to them properly, if you tell them that it's a completely different grading system and that's why the student has gone down a level, then no i don't think they will be confused.
Original post by Albino
i don't think they will be confused.


Then you probably do not have the experience that I do dealing with students and parents
I was just thinking some of the schools near me are not doing well, they don't do some subjects because of what they did to their teachers. Frankly it is amazing if they get 5 GCSEs at C level. It is rare to get the 5 main ones eg. Maths, English, Science If they make the exams harder how is that going to work. the schools standard would get even lower
Reply 97
Original post by peter12345
You're not really getting it. Rather than teach a watered down version of all R.E just teach the core. Giving someone a calculator does not make one good at maths. There's more to maths than adding numbers you know. I said in my first post that if the child does well enough they can move up to the other qualification. It's basically foundation and higher GCSE with the sets determining which one you do they key difference is rather than the lower sets getting a low GCSE grade saying they did everything but a really watered down version they get a separate qualification that shows they are still well versed in the core disciplines.


There is more to maths than adding numbers, and that's why they should be taught a well rounded version of it rather than focus on the "core", some kids are better at other stuff in subjects than others and not allowing them to learn it isn't right really. How about if the child is really good at visualizing shapes and patterns and not so good with the numbers bit, with your scheme the kids are probably more likely to fail as they wont pick up marks on any of the paper. Also teachers can't really make a subject interesting for students if it's so stacked and they are teaching just the same stuff for that long. I'm just wondering what you find so bad about the current foundation/higher system other than the subject being spread so thin and you're not learning enough basic skills?

Original post by beccaxheapes
I agreed with your point up until you said that we shouldn't bother helping people in set 6. Yes, the majority do not want to learn and don't give one about the subjects. But a lot of them have various reasons and they shouldn't all be tarnished with the same brush. When I did my GCSE's I did all Higher Papers and was predicted A's and B's. All apart from Science. I was awful at the subject and didn't do well in my year 9 tests which determined what set I was going to be in. Therefore, I got put in one of the bottom sets for Science and the teaching was appalling, I didn't yearn a single thing all year and the teacher gave up on the whole class, he would sit there drinking his coffee while we were given text books to go through, I had to self-teach the subject and even then I only got a D. Perhaps the government should be worrying about the lower sets and the teaching standards.


I don't mean disregard them completely, but if they are making a habit of disrupting the class on a regular basis and are not willing to learn ect. then teachers should be allowed more authority to exclude them from the class.
Reply 98
Can you please tell me how many marks are needed to get a C on maths unit 2 foundation gcse? its out of 66#thanks:smile:

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Reply 99
Original post by TenOfThem
Then you probably do not have the experience that I do dealing with students and parents


I don't get what's so confusing, you get a 7b in a piece of work in year 9, but in I-Levels you would receive 5. It's not like you are going to compare from year 9 anyway. I have no clue what I got in my SATs but assume it was a 6b does it really matter what that is in comparison to 8 in I-Levels or even A* for that matter? You aren't going to apply for jobs with a 6b in your English SATs. Also numbers are accompanied with letters a/b/c below year 10 while in I-Levels there is no letter.

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