Troops to teachers
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Original post by The_Duck
Just the lack of educational training and likely a lac of subject knowledge.
lets be realistic here, they likely won't be thrown into an A-level maths class.
I suspect it will be more directed at vocational classes, for example former engineers teaching NVQs or teaching Engineering GCSEs, that kind of thing.
Otherwise, I agree, two years is enough to get up to a level where you can teach, but not at one day a week. So depending on the areas they will be teaching in, I agree.
I think that this is also going to cause a massive back-log of trained and inexperienced teachers. As far as I know, only STEM subjects (maybe not the 'T&E)', SM subjects) are in demand. Perhaps foreign languages also. I can't imagine these being studied to a teaching standard at one day a week. Seems like the government is yet again creating jobs out of thin air.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by shannahb
This just seems like an awful idea! They won't have any experience whatsoever in a job where you really NEED experience or students will just walk all over. Yes, they're good instructors IN THE ARMY and they have authority IN THE ARMY but in a school? Students don't give a **** what your last job was. If you can't keep a class entertained, deal with disruptive pupils without yelling at them (as you probably would handle it in the army) and build a good student-teacher relationship with them it's just going to fail. I find it ridiculously unfair that being in the army somehow means they get to jump the queue in being a qualified teacher?! It isn't the job they wanted - they chose to be in the army. People training to be teachers have chosen that career path and therefore know what the job entails and I'm pretty sure it's like that they will WANT to inspire the students they teach. Saying an ex-army person can handle a teacher's job is like saying a chef would be brilliant as a microbiologist! Neither job is more important than the other, but to say they have skills which are transferable from one line of work to another is just ludicrous.
Not all discipline in the army is doing 20 press ups or a general shouting, these are not productive ways to making a situation better. I personally think it could be a good thing, a lot of teaching is reading from a book and anyone who wants to do it can do it if they set their mind to it. It takes a degree of organisation and confidence and anyone can teach if you make it fun. I just hope they are willing to put in that time and effort.
Original post by Thatstudentdude
Seriously though, this is just as bad as the announcement that people without QTS are going to be allowed to teach in academies and such. What are they going to be offer except 'life experience' in a classroom, when children need teachers who have studied teaching and their subject in-depth, not ex-officers who have qualified in 'half the time'.
So you're basically saying that unless you commit to teaching in your early 20s you're not allowed to do it ever?
That seems perfectly reasonable...
I can see them having a good command over a classroom, although I'd also worry about lack of subject knowledge, particularly if teaching GCSE and above.
Then again, my Sixth Form form tutor taught 18 subjects during his teaching career despite having a degree in Classics; he'd just read up on the syllabus and teach it. A few years before he retired, he became an A-Level only teacher and as far as I'm aware nobody's grade suffered from having a teacher without a degree in the subject(s).
That said, I'm not sure everyone could be so flexible.
Then again, my Sixth Form form tutor taught 18 subjects during his teaching career despite having a degree in Classics; he'd just read up on the syllabus and teach it. A few years before he retired, he became an A-Level only teacher and as far as I'm aware nobody's grade suffered from having a teacher without a degree in the subject(s).
That said, I'm not sure everyone could be so flexible.
Original post by Drewski
So you're basically saying that unless you commit to teaching in your early 20s you're not allowed to do it ever?
That seems perfectly reasonable...
That seems perfectly reasonable...
Did I say that? No. People at the age of 40 are becoming teachers, but they're doing it through proper acredited courses such as the PGCE or Schools Direct programes. What the government are offering for these ex-squaddies sounds like a very advanced shortcut which allows them into schools with almost no classroom subject knowledge except that of which they've learnt 'on the field'.
Original post by Drewski
Can guarantee anyone who's served a few years, whether as officer or NCO, has more teaching experience than any NQT. Massively more.
But, just as a rare word of realism to this place; you're not about to see battalions of former troops roll in off the streets. This will just make the transition easier for those who do want to do it.
Edit: to the hurt PGCE student who disliked my comment: tough. It's fact. They'll have been teaching for years whether you like it or not. They will have more experience than an NQT and you can't possibly deny that.
But, just as a rare word of realism to this place; you're not about to see battalions of former troops roll in off the streets. This will just make the transition easier for those who do want to do it.
Edit: to the hurt PGCE student who disliked my comment: tough. It's fact. They'll have been teaching for years whether you like it or not. They will have more experience than an NQT and you can't possibly deny that.
Teaching experience yes, but in that subject field no.
You can't honestly say you would want people without degree level qualifications in the subject they are teaching to be teaching children.
It's bad enough as it is getting teachers who know less than smart children, don't want more of them.
Original post by Booyah
Not all discipline in the army is doing 20 press ups or a general shouting, these are not productive ways to making a situation better. I personally think it could be a good thing, a lot of teaching is reading from a book and anyone who wants to do it can do it if they set their mind to it. It takes a degree of organisation and confidence and anyone can teach if you make it fun. I just hope they are willing to put in that time and effort.
I can see where you're coming from but I still just thinks it's a bad idea. True, it's mainly reading from a book but the teachers that really inspire are the ones that have wanted to do it most of their lives, it isn't just a last minute option because they've left the army and are at a loose end. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way. I just think if you're going to be a teacher you should do it because you're passionate about education. This isn't just applicable for this situation, I've been taught by a lot of people who I've thought just shouldn't be in the classroom because it obviously isn't what they're passionate about. It just seems like a bit of a back up plan for people in the army which isn't what makes a good teacher!
Original post by Blueray2
Teaching experience yes, but in that subject field no.
You can't honestly say you would want people without degree level qualifications in the subject they are teaching to be teaching children.
It's bad enough as it is getting teachers who know less than smart children, don't want more of them.
You can't honestly say you would want people without degree level qualifications in the subject they are teaching to be teaching children.
It's bad enough as it is getting teachers who know less than smart children, don't want more of them.
Let's be brutally honest, in the day and age of "teaching to the exam" that many teachers are forced into, why do they need knowledge above the level they're teaching?
I'm a ski instructor. I teach, almost exclusively, beginners. So do I need to be a world-class downhill racer? No.
Original post by Drewski
Let's be brutally honest, in the day and age of "teaching to the exam" that many teachers are forced into, why do they need knowledge above the level they're teaching?
I'm a ski instructor. I teach, almost exclusively, beginners. So do I need to be a world-class downhill racer? No.
I'm a ski instructor. I teach, almost exclusively, beginners. So do I need to be a world-class downhill racer? No.
But the good teachers don't just 'teach to the exam', they manage to inspire and educate far beyond just what you learn in the exam. Put an ex-officer in the classroom, and they most likely will just be reading from the book and getting them through exams, with no additional merit that dedicated and enthusiastic teachers provide everyday.
Original post by Thatstudentdude
But the good teachers don't just 'teach to the exam', they manage to inspire and educate far beyond just what you learn in the exam. Put an ex-officer in the classroom, and they most likely will just be reading from the book and getting them through exams, with no additional merit that dedicated and enthusiastic teachers provide everyday.
Inspiring a kid to do more is better done by someone who has done something, in my book.
Original post by Drewski
Inspiring a kid to do more is better done by someone who has done something, in my book.
By someone who's wielded a gun? All they're going to do is glorify the army and get the 'boys at the back' who don't work or are seen as 'under-achievers' to join the army.
Honestly, what else can an ex-officer inspire a child to do? They don't have the passion or subject-knowledge to really enthuse about something or for this enthusiasm about a subject to be admired by the children.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Drewski
Let's be brutally honest, in the day and age of "teaching to the exam" that many teachers are forced into, why do they need knowledge above the level they're teaching?
I'm a ski instructor. I teach, almost exclusively, beginners. So do I need to be a world-class downhill racer? No.
I'm a ski instructor. I teach, almost exclusively, beginners. So do I need to be a world-class downhill racer? No.
You don't just teach an exam to children, maybe it may be the case with some teachers, but not in good schools. The whole point is as people have said bellow.
And listen you still need to know the content and understand the content, you can't teach someone something correctly or answer further questions students have, if they don't have degree level knowledge.
Original post by Thatstudentdude
But the good teachers don't just 'teach to the exam', they manage to inspire and educate far beyond just what you learn in the exam. Put an ex-officer in the classroom, and they most likely will just be reading from the book and getting them through exams, with no additional merit that dedicated and enthusiastic teachers provide everyday.
This.
Original post by Thatstudentdude
By someone who's wielded a gun? All they're going to do is glorify the army and get the 'boys at the back' who don't work or are seen as 'under-achievers' to join the army.
Honestly, what else can an ex-officer inspire a child to do? They don't have the passion or subject-knowledge to really enthuse about something or for this enthusiasm about a subject to be admired by the children.
Honestly, what else can an ex-officer inspire a child to do? They don't have the passion or subject-knowledge to really enthuse about something or for this enthusiasm about a subject to be admired by the children.
This.
make them all pe teachers lol
Something tells me they'd actually make pretty good teachers in terms of the skills set they'd have. On the more academic side, I'm not so sure.
Original post by Thatstudentdude
By someone who's wielded a gun? All they're going to do is glorify the army and get the 'boys at the back' who don't work or are seen as 'under-achievers' to join the army.
Honestly, what else can an ex-officer inspire a child to do? They don't have the passion or subject-knowledge to really enthuse about something or for this enthusiasm about a subject to be admired by the children.
Honestly, what else can an ex-officer inspire a child to do? They don't have the passion or subject-knowledge to really enthuse about something or for this enthusiasm about a subject to be admired by the children.
do you know many people who've been in the army? Sounds like a load of fact-free generalisation and prejudice being spewed here tbh.
Ps
The army doesn't want low achievers to use for cannon fodder these days, or in the recent past tbh.
Original post by Joinedup
do you know many people who've been in the army? Sounds like a load of fact-free generalisation and prejudice being spewed here tbh.
Ps
The army doesn't want low achievers to use for cannon fodder these days, or in the recent past tbh.
Ps
The army doesn't want low achievers to use for cannon fodder these days, or in the recent past tbh.
I have an uncle and cousin previously in the army and one cousin who's just come back off tour actually. Could any of them go into a school and teach Maths or English and share a passion for those academic subjects with a class of 30 children though? Considering they have no formal further education in either of those subjects? I very much doubt it.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by bellatrixb
What on earth are they going to teach? If you haven't got a degree, one day a week at uni for 2 years (especially after having several years out of education) is not going to bring knowledge up to the standard need to teach in a secondary school... It's a good thing that the government is helping soldiers return to civilian life, but there isn't any shortage of candidates for teaching jobs, and knowledge standards are a bit low as it is. I really can't see this working.
Exactly. Furthermore, it devalues the degree which students/people study for...
Don't understand how Soldiers will learn all equivalent to Alevels and degree in 2 years plus having taken a long break from education..
(edited 10 years ago)
Horrible idea, it's probably because teachers tend to be left wing and by bringing in soldiers the government can brainwash children with "discipline", or "duty".
I do not comment on forums to often, but as a current serving soldier I thought I would add a different perspective to the party. It is my intention to move into teaching, although I do have the request qualifications (BSc and MSc). There seems to be some opinion that the modern Army is the same Army of 50 years ago. The leadership style required to get the best out of a soldier has progressed beyond just shouting at them.
The Army recruits from across society and I think everyone would agree that any civilian could become a teacher. Equally I don't think anyone would make such a bold statement that every soldier would make a good teacher.
As with any career changer soldiers do have transferable skills, such as leadership, confidence and a presence about them. For those that are of the opinion that soldiers have no academic skills it would be worth investigating some of the trades on offer. The technical Corps, of which I am part of, offer probably one of the best through life career education systems within any industry. On offer are OND, HNC, HND, FdSc, BSc (Hons) and MSc to focus on the most common. This is on top of the vocational qualifications. Using myself as a case example, I have spent 4 years in full time study throughout my career and 4 years distance learning to attain my MSc. The selection process to get onto my BSC was very rigorous and involved 12 months of distance learning and two 3 hour exams. As a Warrant Officer and head of trade I have to mentor and often teach soldiers to ensure that the results on the selection process are good enough (a simple 50-60% pass would not get you onto a course).
I will sign off for now with the simple statement:
i accept not all soldiers would make a good teacher, but many would make excellent teachers.
The Army recruits from across society and I think everyone would agree that any civilian could become a teacher. Equally I don't think anyone would make such a bold statement that every soldier would make a good teacher.
As with any career changer soldiers do have transferable skills, such as leadership, confidence and a presence about them. For those that are of the opinion that soldiers have no academic skills it would be worth investigating some of the trades on offer. The technical Corps, of which I am part of, offer probably one of the best through life career education systems within any industry. On offer are OND, HNC, HND, FdSc, BSc (Hons) and MSc to focus on the most common. This is on top of the vocational qualifications. Using myself as a case example, I have spent 4 years in full time study throughout my career and 4 years distance learning to attain my MSc. The selection process to get onto my BSC was very rigorous and involved 12 months of distance learning and two 3 hour exams. As a Warrant Officer and head of trade I have to mentor and often teach soldiers to ensure that the results on the selection process are good enough (a simple 50-60% pass would not get you onto a course).
I will sign off for now with the simple statement:
i accept not all soldiers would make a good teacher, but many would make excellent teachers.
Original post by shooks
So, another day, another government education scheme.
This time it's the turn of former military who fancy becoming teachers.
This from the Guardian:
Full article here
Seems like a quick way to get new teachers - but will they be up to the task?
This time it's the turn of former military who fancy becoming teachers.
This from the Guardian:
Full article here
Seems like a quick way to get new teachers - but will they be up to the task?
I don't know... a fair few of the teachers at my school were ex-military and they were really good teachers (and generally the more relaxed ones...) we had 1 ex-SBS, 1 ex-army intel/light infantry, 1 ex-royal artillery, 1 ex-marines, 2 ex-rifles and someone who was previously a tank commander in the German military... (he was the only one out of all of them that was actually even vaguely strict... - he got a warning for cutting down bushes to catch smokers...)
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