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When does investment banking get better?

Everywhere you often see people talking about the nature of IB. Incredibly long hours, no sleep etc. It obviously varies from person to person. I'm trying to choose a career path and i want to know how Investment banking REALLY is as an analyst i.e will i have a life and will i be constantly working? Also, as the title suggests, around what age does it begin to get better? i.e. i have more normal hours that are easier. Would i be able to start a family properly by the age of 35 and be able to pursue hobbies?

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Reply 1
Just bite the bullet and man up, if you enjoy it and are geniunely interested it shouldn't matter what time you are in or out of the office. You need to be aware of things 24/7. When people ask these type of questions, I do strongly question their motives.
From what I've heard, it never gets better.:tongue: Doesn't sound like an easy job at all.
Original post by TheAsianComplex
I don't mind how hard a path is, as long as i get to where i want to be at the end. I'm prepared to work like a dog if i have to. The point of the question was to ascertain wether it is possible to one day get there, and just to generally understand what the life in IB is like, because i haven't been able to talk with someone in IB. I understand you have to be aware 24/7. That is usually a perquisite for any demanding job such as medicine or law.


Surely, any job whether its law, medicine or investment banking. Will never get "better", as you get a high ranking position within your career, it will most likely come with more responsibilities and more pressure. I think its about getting to a point in career where you can balance work with family.
You will have no life to begin with and work will never leave you. If you have doubts about the hours then this isn't the career for you. You can start a family whenever but it depends on your girl, and how she feels about your job. I know some people tend to start a family at VP level, hours significantly drop at MD level (I.e. you will have a life), as you get more senior you might have to travel more. Generally, year on year, the hours get slightly less and the pay gets slightly better. Bear in mind, in IBD, most people don't stay after three years. Also, this applies to IBD, global markets is slightly different but work will still dominate your life. Also, it isn't like 100 hours every single week. You will have quieter weeks and busier weeks, especially towards the end of deals which is where the hours get ridiculous. Even in a quieter week, the hours are still very long though.

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Reply 5
Original post by TheAsianComplex
I don't mind how hard a path is, as long as i get to where i want to be at the end. I'm prepared to work like a dog if i have to. The point of the question was to ascertain wether it is possible to one day get there, and just to generally understand what the life in IB is like, because i haven't been able to talk with someone in IB. I understand you have to be aware 24/7. That is usually a perquisite for any demanding job such as medicine or law.


So you want to work in IB, but know nothing about it? Quite Classic.
Reply 6
Original post by will2348
You will have no life to begin with and work will never leave you. If you have doubts about the hours then this isn't the career for you. You can start a family whenever but it depends on your girl, and how she feels about your job. I know some people tend to start a family at VP level, hours significantly drop at MD level (I.e. you will have a life), as you get more senior you might have to travel more. Generally, year on year, the hours get slightly less and the pay gets slightly better. Bear in mind, in IBD, most people don't stay after three years. Also, this applies to IBD, global markets is slightly different but work will still dominate your life. Also, it isn't like 100 hours every single week. You will have quieter weeks and busier weeks, especially towards the end of deals which is where the hours get ridiculous. Even in a quieter week, the hours are still very long though.

Posted from TSR Mobile


Finish your A - Levels first mate, I really wouldn't say that the hours 'improve' once you hit MD level, most MD's I know are in Hong Kong on Monday, New York by Wednesday, then last minute call to Tokyo for Friday. It's a very varied and volatile career, it's quite hard to put everything in a formulaic order.
(edited 10 years ago)
There are 9-5 jobs in MO and BO that have better hourly wages and better work/life balance than the people that work 24/7. Look into that
Reply 8
If you go to a good uni, the work will never leave you until you die.
Reply 9
It never gets better - the hours are always long, holidays are often interupted or cancelled and you are a slave to your Blackberry.
Original post by CoolStoryBroo
There are 9-5 jobs in MO and BO that have better hourly wages and better work/life balance than the people that work 24/7. Look into that


MO and BO are not 9-5, more like 9-6.30 and occasionally believe or not they will be living the office at 9/10pm. what have you been smoking?

to the OP, you have the mental age of a 11 year old, simply retarded.
Original post by TheAsianComplex
Why?


Original post by TheAsianComplex
I don't mind how hard a path is, as long as i get to where i want to be at the end. I'm prepared to work like a dog if i have to. The point of the question was to ascertain wether it is possible to one day get there, and just to generally understand what the life in IB is like, because i haven't been able to talk with someone in IB. I understand you have to be aware 24/7. That is usually a perquisite for any demanding job such as medicine or law.


The above post is incoherent bull****. What does 'aware 24/7' even mean.

If you're prepared to work like a dog, you shouldn't even be asking this question buddy.
Reply 12
Original post by Cutmeloose
MO and BO are not 9-5, more like 9-6.30 and occasionally believe or not they will be living the office at 9/10pm.


What specific roles are those shorter hours?
Having spent a good bit of time speaking to people at all levels of the chain:

Analyst you can expect to work between 80 and 120 hours in any given week--depending on the group the average is usually somewhere between 80 and 100.
Associate your hours will decrease in most groups, with the longest weeks being the same (when there's a big deal closing it's all hands on deck) but the shortest weeks being closer to 60-70 hours and the average usually being around 65-85.
VP hours are comparable to associate, a little less. Usually 60-75 depending on group.
MD hours are quite a bit less, usually averaging somewhere between 55 and 65 depending on the group.

There really is a huge amount of variability group to group. Some groups within banks have the reputation of being 'lifestyle' groups while others have the reputation of being sweatshops--the trick is to find the group to suit you. Lifestyle groups still aren't going to let you have your weekends off as an analyst or anything--you'll just be working closer to the lower bound averages I quoted above.

Also, if you want to switch to a better work-life balance later in your career banking sets you up very well to move into a corp strat/corp dev role within industry (especially if you work in an industry coverage group). I've spoken to a couple people in corp dev and they are definitely still looking to hire bankers into those roles.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 14
Original post by TheAsianComplex
I was referring to SW1X's post. I don't think you've bothered to read any of the other posts. I was talking about a job in IB and the need to be demanding nature of the job, often requiring you to be available to work at most times.


I wouldn't say it's that demanding as an analyst. Just long hours.

Ultimately the maths they are using is just basic addition, subtraction, multiplication, division and a bit of compound interest and ratios here and there. A 16 year old could do it.

Alot of the time you are sitting around waiting for associates/VPs to dump work on your desk. Sometimes you will be sent off on a pointless 'research' task. And sometimes of 30 pages of input you make only 2 will actually be included in the pitchbook.
Reply 15
Original post by L100UK
What specific roles are those shorter hours?


IT can be 9-5 although the nature of the job means that often people will arrive and leave earlier and later then this whilst keeping roughly the same number of hours each day. Occasionally some things need to be done at the weekend as well. There are some MO/BO roles that are part time due to the amount of work required although I can't remember exactly what these are.
Reply 16
Original post by Philosopher-of-sorts
Having spent a good bit of time speaking to people at all levels of the chain:

Analyst you can expect to work between 80 and 120 hours in any given week--depending on the group the average is usually somewhere between 80 and 100.
Associate your hours will decrease in most groups, with the longest weeks being the same (when there's a big deal closing it's all hands on deck) but the shortest weeks being closer to 60-70 hours and the average usually being around 65-85.
VP hours are comparable to associate, a little less. Usually 60-75 depending on group.
MD hours are quite a bit less, usually averaging somewhere between 55 and 65 depending on the group.

There really is a huge amount of variability group to group. Some groups within banks have the reputation of being 'lifestyle' groups while others have the reputation of being sweatshops--the trick is to find the group to suit you. Lifestyle groups still aren't going to let you have your weekends off as an analyst or anything--you'll just be working closer to the lower bound averages I quoted above.

Also, if you want to switch to a better work-life balance later in your career banking sets you up very well to move into a corp strat/corp dev role within industry (especially if you work in an industry coverage group). I've spoken to a couple people in corp dev and they are definitely still looking to hire bankers into those roles.


OK so you're saying some of them work 20 hours a day Monday to Saturday. Or maybe just 17 hours a day 7 days a week.

Sure they are, fella.
Reply 17
Original post by bornfishy
OK so you're saying some of them work 20 hours a day Monday to Saturday. Or maybe just 17 hours a day 7 days a week.

Sure they are, fella.


They are often in the office 18-20 hours per day.

They're not actually working intensively for all (most?) of those hours. In effect many may be looking at research whilst on standby for propertly 'business critical' work to be dumped on their desks.
Original post by bornfishy
OK so you're saying some of them work 20 hours a day Monday to Saturday. Or maybe just 17 hours a day 7 days a week.

Sure they are, fella.


I'm always a little bit bemused when someone without a great deal of knowledge about a topic decides to adopt a condescending tone. But I'll bite.

It's closer to the latter. Weekends essentially do not exist for the average IBD analyst. You'll work Saturday and Sunday most weeks. And yes, when a deal is in one of the work-intensive phases, 120 hours is not unheard of. Most groups try and make sure that doesn't happen, but there are some sweatshop groups where it's not that irregular.

I didn't believe it when I first heard it, but this is just how it is.
Original post by effofex
They are often in the office 18-20 hours per day.

They're not actually working intensively for all (most?) of those hours. In effect many may be looking at research whilst on standby for propertly 'business critical' work to be dumped on their desks.


120 hours a week (or even 18-20 hrs a day over 5 days) is an exaggeration of the average. I'm not saying no analyst has ever worked that much, but it's not the average; though, it might be the average during a busy run. 70-100 is the range I've usually seen analysts operate in, with anything outside that range being a break in the routine, for better or worse; and further, analysts who talk about 100+ weeks usually mean to spread it over 7 days, not 5, because weekends are often assumed as work days unless there's a good reason to do otherwise. What team you work in is what makes a huge difference.

Also, I don't know whether or not you're into IBD, but from what I remember from previous posting you're not, and I've seen analysts (and associates) plugged into their work for most of the day, with a few breaks (aggregate ~2-3hrs) for lunch/waiting/gym/conf. calls. I don't know how quickly you think banker work gets done, but when you're putting together company profiles into the double digits, working on a CIM or spreading large sets of comps your time fills up fast; sure, some days might be spent just killing time, but if your group is a good (busy) one, then you won't see much of that and you will spend most of that time working.
(edited 10 years ago)

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