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Feminists, do you really want equality?

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Original post by 2ndClass
I never argued "evolutionary totally", if anything the environmental factors juts reinforce my argument. Risenmitten made a moronic assertion that we're not dictated by our genetics, then after recognizing her flaw, totally backtracked and said oh wait, environment also plays a role.

You need to read next time pls


No I didn't. If you read my posts you'll see that my argument was that both play a role. Yours was that only evolution does.

Original post by shadowdweller
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Original post by Xotol
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We're all on the same page aren't we? It's 2ndclass that has changed his argument.
Reply 121
Original post by Xotol
Then don't make a blanket assertions about females based on hypergamy if you disagree with the foundation of that view. Your supposed views and the arguments you've made here are not congruent.

What you said:

Of course not every single woman in the world, (there are 3 billion of you) will go for the alpha type (most likely because they are unavailable to you), but at the end of the day, the vast, vast majority of women are repelled by the beta captain manginas and looking at it from a woman's perspective and what she is predisposed to, I completely understand why.


I don't disagree with the foundations......you're still debating other's people's arguments through me.

I said that evolutionarily, women are predisposed to like certain features in men, risenmitten had a problem with my genetic assertion and then when I exposed the flaw in her logic she backtracked and said well ok environmental factors plays a role, then shadowdweller had a problem with her environmental counterargument, and then you jumped in out of no where.

As I said you're the ones with the argument here, ironically, I'm the only one to provide evidence from my hypergamy argument.
(edited 10 years ago)
Yes.

/thread.
Original post by 2ndClass
I don't disagree with the foundations......you're still debating other's people's arguments through me.

I said that evolutionarily, women are predisposed to like certain features in men, risenmitten had a problem with my genetic assertion and then when I exposed the flaw in her logic she backtracked and said well ok environmental factors plays a role, then shadowdweller had a problem with her environmental counterargument, and then you jumped in out of no where.

As I said you're the ones with the argument here, ironically, I'm the only one to provide evidence from my hypergamy argument.


No, my argument was the same as Xotol.

Your hypergamy argument implied that genetic factors were the overriding factor. I asked for evidence. Please don't put words in my mouth. If you want clarification on my views you can reread the thread.

Also me and shaowdweller were both just asking for evidence. We wanted you to state your amazing argument that you are yet to provide us with.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by therisenmitten
We're all on the same page aren't we? It's 2ndclass that has changed his argument.


Frankly I've lost track at this point. I agree with both of you, but perhaps my question was better suited towards one of you

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Reply 125
Original post by 2ndClass
I don't disagree with the foundations......you're still debating other's people's arguments through me.

I said that evolutionarily, women are predisposed to like certain features in men,


Yes, but that doesn't mean they will like those features! In a world where humans are purely driven by evolutionary forces, yes, but it's wrong to generalise this to the 'vast majority' of billions of women (and, from what you said, those that don't is because that type of man is not available) because it ignores all of the other factors into play.

This is pointless. You are somehow convinced that I'm not debating you. Besides, this isn't the point of this thread. I'm done here.
Original post by 2ndClass
shadowdweller had a problem with her environmental counterargument


As I said before, my initial query was about learned behaviours, which you brought up (and didn't expand upon). Perhaps the environmental question that stemmed from that should have been directed towards someone else, but my original questions were about a point you made

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Reply 127
Original post by therisenmitten
No, my argument was the same as Xotol.

Your hypergamy argument implied that genetic factors were the overriding factor. I asked for evidence. Please don't put words in my mouth. If you want clarification on my views you can reread the thread.


My argument was from the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Yale University, I already provided the source in my original post.

You're just backtracking because you and shadowdweller are so stupid you didn't know you were debating each other. I guess it's down to female impulsiveness and emotion I suppose.
Original post by 2ndClass
My argument was from the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Yale University, I already provided the source in my original post.

You're just backtracking because you and shadowdweller are so stupid you didn't know you were debating each other. I guess it's down to female impulsiveness and emotion I suppose.


2ndclass again refuses to admit that he has changed his argument and makes another huge generalisation about women.

I'm also out.
Reply 129
Yes I'm the one changing arguments
Original post by McHumpy92
Thanks....when they're 21 they're generally quite optimistic and have hopes and dreams. It is when they hit mid 20's they start worrying about their biological clock and losing their looks and they start going a bit crazy and desperate.

One of my housemates, she is early 30's and her BF dumped her in a comedy way recently...he accused her of 'cheating on him and using him for sex' it is obviously the other way round but he twisted it hilariously. She was practically crying to me how she now has to get in the dating game quick and go on a load of horrible dates....thing is she is on match.com and has minimum earn as 40k and wonders why she keeps meeting sleazy blokes who clearly are either married or all they talk about is money.



So explain this then: my family is mare up of my mum and dad, my mum out-earns my dad, quite vastly too, she's in management for chemical engineering for an oil company, and he works part time. He earns about 1/3 of what she does, and to be honest, she doesn't care. So most woman are hypergamous?

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(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 131
Original post by chappers-94
So explain this then: my family is mare up of my mum and dad, my mum out-earns my dad, quite vastly too, she's in management for chemical engineering for an oil company, and he works part time. He earns about 1/3 of what she does, and to be honest, she doesn't care. So most woman are hypergamous?

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I would have to know your parents to give you an answer or reason if I could potentially come up with one.

Also when generalisations, you generally point out trends rather than outliers. Your family situation isn't common, you know this hence why you brought it up.

But yes, I do think most women are hypergamous. Well middle-class women at the very least.
Original post by 2ndClass
You're just backtracking because you and shadowdweller are so stupid you didn't know you were debating each other. I guess it's down to female impulsiveness and emotion I suppose.


Again, my initial argument was with you, hence the proceeding questions being directed at you

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Reply 133
Of course they don't.
Original post by chocoholic_x
Can I just also add, why have there been so many threads about feminism recently? :tongue: I feel like I have never been in more demand.
I think it is the only subject matter that beats Veganism in amount of posts made.
There is an assumption implicit in this thread that equality is a good thing.... is it? Is equality a good thing? is it fair to treat two sexes that are so clearly different the same way? is it fair to expect them to have the same outcomes in life when they are so clearly different? of course the answer to these questions is no.

The word we should all be focusing on is equity and not equality...not equality of opportunity nor equality of outcome...or any other form of equality...In a world where every single person is different equality is unfair...equity is the only way.

(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by conquer
Just another thread, because I'm really curious about this subject. Feminists claim to want equality but it seems feminists and I have differing opinions on what equality is.

I support equality of opportunity while feminists seem to support equality of outcome. Even though many women have made career decisions based on their desired lifestyle, leading to an underrepresentation of women in politics and other time consuming careers, feminists are moaning about how there are more men than women in these areas. But I don't get it. What's the problem with their gender? Why is it wrong for men to be politicians if more men happen to be the best for the job? And there's no proof that the few amount of women in politics and business boardrooms is down to sexism or gender roles.

Despite there being many logical explanations for why men earn more than women overall, such as women taking time off work to have a family, feminists complain about the pay gap, reject all other explanations and insist it is sexism. Yet funnily enough, young women earn more than young men (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2237196/Women-win-gender-pay-war-20s-earning-men-age.html).

Why don't we see feminists complaining about this inequality? Do they only complain about inequality when men are doing better? But when women are doing better, they keep quiet and brush it under the carpet?

Is inequality bad even when it's not down to sexism? Are feminists happy for men to dominate in certain careers even if the men got their jobs fairly and due to being better? Or are feminists bitter about men dominating in several fields because of their sex and are only interested in equality of outcome or even female supremacy?

So feminists and non-feminists, do you want equality of opportunity or do you want equality of outcome or even female supremacy? And why?


Egalitarianism is the way forward. Feminism is outdated and fallacious.

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