Armed Forces Day
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Original post by DoubleYikes
Have you ever attempted to acknowledge the reality of why you went to war. the real reasoning behind each conflict.
Many soldiers have had a moral conscience and have refused to participate in future conflicts or rejoin their battalion. Perhaps these men have discovered something you are yet to discover.
That's the problem, once your caught in the net (especially at a young age) and once you have participated in illegal wars, you need to keep up the pretense. I imagine admitting you made a mistake would be difficult, but it's never too late to change your mind. It only takes one person to make a difference and that one person is you.
Intelligence is entirely different from wisdom.
Many soldiers have had a moral conscience and have refused to participate in future conflicts or rejoin their battalion. Perhaps these men have discovered something you are yet to discover.
That's the problem, once your caught in the net (especially at a young age) and once you have participated in illegal wars, you need to keep up the pretense. I imagine admitting you made a mistake would be difficult, but it's never too late to change your mind. It only takes one person to make a difference and that one person is you.
Intelligence is entirely different from wisdom.
Which wars were illegal again? I'll be buggered if I can remember anybody taking us to court over any if them.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Which wars were illegal again? I'll be buggered if I can remember anybody taking us to court over any if them.
Perhaps you've not been round long enough to remember the investigation into the legality of the Iraq war. Everybody refers to both the Afghan war and Iraq war as illegal, whether deemed as such by a court. I mean, how will you ever put the government of a country on trial. It doesn't happen. That's why they call it 'getting away with murder'
The USA is yet to even apologize to Japan for the nukes they dropped, or to the Vietnamese or Cambodians. We all know these things where wrong and illegal by the majority of peoples standards, yet these inhumanities will never see the inside of a court room, cause the courts are controlled by the governments.
You cannot judge what is illegal and what is legal on prosecution alone.
Original post by DoubleYikes
Perhaps you've not been round long enough to remember the investigation into the legality of the Iraq war. Everybody refers to both the Afghan war and Iraq war as illegal, whether deemed as such by a court.
No everyone doesn't, atleast not in regards to Afghanistan.
Are you one of those people that believe if you think it then everyone must?
The USA is yet to even apologize to Japan for the nukes they dropped, or to the Vietnamese or Cambodians. We all know these things where wrong and illegal by the majority of peoples standards, yet these inhumanities will never see the inside of a court room, cause the courts are controlled by the governments.
Terror bombing a population is illegal end of, but the fact that nuclear weapons were used is irrelevant. Plus again, there is a big debate about the attacks on Japan, there's no consensus, you really need to open your ears a little.
Original post by DoubleYikes
Perhaps you've not been round long enough to remember the investigation into the legality of the Iraq war. Nope. I was too busy sweating my T*ts off in Basra. Nobody has taken anybody to court and as far as I'm aware no international body has come out and said it was illegal. Therefore the opinion of some people remains that. An opinion with no legal grounding or findings. Everybody refers to both the Afghan war and Iraq war as illegal, whether deemed as such by a court. I don't deem Afghanistan as illegal. In fact so un illegal is it it even has a UN resolution backing it up. Even the Russians and Chinese support it. So not illegal. I mean, how will you ever put the government of a country on trial. Numerous international courts which we all have access to.It doesn't happen. That's why they call it 'getting away with murder' Yes they do. You may need to read up on some history there dear child.
The USA is yet to even apologize to Japan for the nukes they dropped, Bit hard to apologize for a legitimate act of war. After all, the Japs did attack America without warning at Pearl Harbour and both of those lovely nukes were major contributing factors for ending the war and saving lives.. or to the Vietnamese Bit difficult to apologise when you were invited in by the South Vietnamese Government, whilst the North Vietnames Government haven't apologised for invading and conquering their neighbour. or Cambodians What for? To my knowledge it was the South Vietnamese who invaded Cambodia who were quite happily letting North Vietnamese troops use their territory? Or are you expecting the US to apologise for the Khmer Rouge? Or for teh Vietnamese invasion of 79?. We all know these things where wrong and illegal by the majority of peoples standards, yet these inhumanities will never see the inside of a court room, cause the courts are controlled by the governments. Slight bit of paranoia there. You're mixing up opinion with legality again.
You cannot judge what is illegal and what is legal on prosecution alone.
That's all we've got. The rest is speculation and opinion. As we can see my opinion differs greatly from yours. The only way to find out what is right and wrong is a legal decision. In the absence of a legal decision then it's not illegal. Otherwise I could start making wild and slanderous accusations about you, or vice versa with no legal support.
The USA is yet to even apologize to Japan for the nukes they dropped, Bit hard to apologize for a legitimate act of war. After all, the Japs did attack America without warning at Pearl Harbour and both of those lovely nukes were major contributing factors for ending the war and saving lives.. or to the Vietnamese Bit difficult to apologise when you were invited in by the South Vietnamese Government, whilst the North Vietnames Government haven't apologised for invading and conquering their neighbour. or Cambodians What for? To my knowledge it was the South Vietnamese who invaded Cambodia who were quite happily letting North Vietnamese troops use their territory? Or are you expecting the US to apologise for the Khmer Rouge? Or for teh Vietnamese invasion of 79?. We all know these things where wrong and illegal by the majority of peoples standards, yet these inhumanities will never see the inside of a court room, cause the courts are controlled by the governments. Slight bit of paranoia there. You're mixing up opinion with legality again.
You cannot judge what is illegal and what is legal on prosecution alone.
That's all we've got. The rest is speculation and opinion. As we can see my opinion differs greatly from yours. The only way to find out what is right and wrong is a legal decision. In the absence of a legal decision then it's not illegal. Otherwise I could start making wild and slanderous accusations about you, or vice versa with no legal support.
See above in Bold
Original post by MatureStudent36
See above in Bold
The then United NationsSecretary-GeneralKofi Annan said in September 2004 that: "From our point of view and the UN Charter point of view, it [the war] was illegal. I beleive it also went to a political court, of which a conclusion is yet to be given (I wonder why).
Personally, I don't measure the worth of an action by it's legality, but by it's moral reasoning. And although courts, governments etc... don't quite get morals I believe it is the only standard we can measure good against.
There are many countries, I think you will agree that have absurd laws such as that of Saudi Arabia. Just cause it is practically legal for a man to beat his wife and make her cover up against her will, I am sure you will agree there is little if any moral reasoning or fibre to this. It is the same with westernised countries, some things which are legal are immoral and some which are illegal are moral. Societies actions alone should not be based on law. Anyone with a bit of wisdom would admit that. It is a shame you have to rely on the law for your moral guidance as it has completely fooled you into war and believing your actions are righteous, like it has fooled many others.
Even if Iraq was developing nuclear weapons what sensible person would believe this is a good reason to war with a country, when the UK, USA and several other countries are sitting on the largest nukes. So not only are these wars illegal, but they are hypocritical. As for the war on Afghanistan, the situation regards the threat of terrorism around the world and in western countries has substantially increased. Why do you think they don't teach morals in school. It's cause they hope enough people will grow up without them so they have an army that will march into war when given the order.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by pol pot noodles
No everyone doesn't, atleast not in regards to Afghanistan.
Are you one of those people that believe if you think it then everyone must?
Perhaps i mix with a more moral social group, but i have yet to meet anyone that has agreed with the wars. That's the thing, mass media more than often justifies what soldiers do, so those few that agree with war naively believe that a majority of the population are in favour of war, but that is rarely if ever the truth.
Terror bombing a population is illegal end of, but the fact that nuclear weapons were used is irrelevant. Plus again, there is a big debate about the attacks on Japan, there's no consensus, you really need to open your ears a little.
Are you one of those people that believe if you think it then everyone must?
Perhaps i mix with a more moral social group, but i have yet to meet anyone that has agreed with the wars. That's the thing, mass media more than often justifies what soldiers do, so those few that agree with war naively believe that a majority of the population are in favour of war, but that is rarely if ever the truth.
Terror bombing a population is illegal end of, but the fact that nuclear weapons were used is irrelevant. Plus again, there is a big debate about the attacks on Japan, there's no consensus, you really need to open your ears a little.
There is no complete consensus on most things. Nukes or no nukes, bombing civilians indiscriminately is never justified. Japan bombed pearl harbour, an army base, that's What you expect in war, but bombing civilians is not expected or justified whether it ends the war or not. All that America did was rack up a greater number of civilian deaths over a shorter term. America remains the biggest terrorist threat.
Original post by DoubleYikes
There is no complete consensus on most things. Nukes or no nukes, bombing civilians indiscriminately is never justified. Japan bombed pearl harbour, an army base, that's What you expect in war, but bombing civilians is not expected or justified whether it ends the war or not. All that America did was rack up a greater number of civilian deaths over a shorter term.
If you accept that there is no consensus on the matter then stop implying that there is.
I distinctly said that terror bombing is illegal. My point was that the fact that nuclear weapons were used is irrelevant. It's not as if what us and the Germans did to each other was alright because conventional bombs were used.
You do however need to accept the fact that this was WW2 where all aspects of humanity were thrown out of the window, plus you may want to read up on what the Japanese did in China and the rest of Asia before attempting to paint them as innocent victims who wanted a fair war.
America remains the biggest terrorist threat.
A 'terrorist' threat, sure. I'd agree with that. Their record on human rights and rule of law is dubious.
The biggest? No, not really, not by a long shot, that's hyperbole.
Original post by pol pot noodles
If you accept that there is no consensus on the matter then stop implying that there is.
I distinctly said that terror bombing is illegal. My point was that the fact that nuclear weapons were used is irrelevant. It's not as if what us and the Germans did to each other was alright because conventional bombs were used.
You do however need to accept the fact that this was WW2 where all aspects of humanity were thrown out of the window, plus you may want to read up on what the Japanese did in China and the rest of Asia before attempting to paint them as innocent victims who wanted a fair war.
A 'terrorist' threat, sure. I'd agree with that. Their record on human rights and rule of law is dubious.
The biggest? No, not really, not by a long shot, that's hyperbole.
I distinctly said that terror bombing is illegal. My point was that the fact that nuclear weapons were used is irrelevant. It's not as if what us and the Germans did to each other was alright because conventional bombs were used.
You do however need to accept the fact that this was WW2 where all aspects of humanity were thrown out of the window, plus you may want to read up on what the Japanese did in China and the rest of Asia before attempting to paint them as innocent victims who wanted a fair war.
A 'terrorist' threat, sure. I'd agree with that. Their record on human rights and rule of law is dubious.
The biggest? No, not really, not by a long shot, that's hyperbole.
Firstly, I have never justified Japan and their behaviors to other nations, I fully accept their behavior to China was wrong and inhumane to say the least, but two wrongs does not make a right.
Secondly dropping any form of bomb is wrong, but a nuke increases the terror and creates a fall out for many weeks, even months later. Bombing military bases during war is one thing but America took it to another level not only in regards to the type of weapon they used, but with regards to the innocent people they targeted which made them equally as bad as Hitler and his military. As I said the end never justifies the means.
You need to accept that a lot of people no matter what the situation, would never throw all aspects of humanity out the window. The ones that do, help separate the wheat from the shaft. Although I would agree that back in the days when there was little media and greater naivety I can see how people would fall in line easier and not question things as much as what they would today. This however does not stop the same inhumanities being repeated today.
With the help of NATO and other organisations America remains the biggest threat to World peace. They not only are unreasonable in their response to foreign affairs and have incredibly bad foreign policy similar to that of the UK, but they seem to lack any sense of humanity. Additionally America is the country that quite often initiates conflict and then sits back and watches it explode. America is involved in the majority of the wars we currently have. Please so some research.
When I say there is no consensus. This is due to the fact that decision making is done by a bunch of inadequate twits. The Teletubbies could give a better consensus.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by DoubleYikes
With the help of NATO and other organisations America remains the biggest threat to World peace.
And yet, when things like Libya or Syria happen they - and to a lesser extent, we - are the first to be blamed for allowing to happen when we have the ability to stop fighting and killing, usually by people like yourself pushing the liberal pacifism angle.
You're nothing but a hypocrite but you'll never ever see it because you don't see any opinion but your own.
Original post by DoubleYikes
Secondly dropping any form of bomb is wrong, but a nuke increases the terror and creates a fall out for many weeks, even months later.
Secondly dropping any form of bomb is wrong, but a nuke increases the terror and creates a fall out for many weeks, even months later.
How is that any worse than literally burning cities to the ground, with civilians being burnt alive in firestorms?
Bombing military bases during war is one thing but America took it to another level not only in regards to the type of weapon they used, but with regards to the innocent people they targeted which made them equally as bad as Hitler and his military. As I said the end never justifies the means.
Again, type of weapon irrelevant. To even suggest it is on par with crimes committed by the Nazis is beyond ridiculous.
And yes actually, the end on many occasions does justify the means in the real world outside of the idealistic fantasy bubble you clearly live in.
You need to accept that a lot of people no matter what the situation, would never throw all aspects of humanity out the window. The ones that do, help separate the wheat from the shaft.
The ones that do, more often than not end up dead. Do you think the US government should have instead invaded Japan and lost hundreds and thousands of it's troops? Why exactly should Americans have had to bleed simply to ease your silly pacifist idealism.
Although I would agree that back in the days when there was little media and greater naivety I can see how people would fall in line easier and not question things as much as what they would today. This however does not stop the same inhumanities being repeated today.
For you to accuse others of naivety is...humorous to say the least.
With the help of NATO and other organisations America remains the biggest threat to World peace. They not only are unreasonable in their response to foreign affairs and have incredibly bad foreign policy similar to that of the UK, but they seem to lack any sense of humanity. Additionally America is the country that quite often initiates conflict and then sits back and watches it explode. America is involved in the majority of the wars we currently have. Please so some research.
Of course America is involved in a lot of wars, they have an interventionist foreign policy. That is in itself irrelevant. Aside from Iraq, which recent wars did America initiate? Please do some actual research yourself instead of regurgitating the typical anti-America rhetoric whereby everything is always their fault.
When I say there is no consensus. This is due to the fact that decision making is done by a bunch of inadequate twits. The Teletubbies could give a better consensus.
WTF is this nonsense?
You kept claiming things like how 'everyone' says the war in Afghanistan is illegal, and how 'everyone' says that dropping the nukes on Japan was wrong. I bet you a pound to penny if you hold a poll on TSR the results will be anything but 'everyone' agreeing with you.
Original post by Drewski
And yet, when things like Libya or Syria happen they - and to a lesser extent, we - are the first to be blamed for allowing to happen when we have the ability to stop fighting and killing, usually by people like yourself pushing the liberal pacifism angle.
You're nothing but a hypocrite but you'll never ever see it because you don't see any opinion but your own.
You're nothing but a hypocrite but you'll never ever see it because you don't see any opinion but your own.
And you think western countries had nothing to do with the Libya and Syria conflicts. I don't want to go into detail, but the USA would love to see a new order in Syria. This will mean Iran is completely surrounded as until now Syria has been a friend of Iran and has quite rightly ignored any UN sanctions placed on Iran, making Americas job of Bulldozing Iran to grass roots incredibly difficult. Please look into situations a bit more. The majority of the public think arming the rebels would be wrong, yet the UK and America still want to arm them (which they have done secretively anyway).
I don't agree with Assad, but the rebels are brutal to an equal degree and currently women are better off under Assad's progressive (if undemocratic rule) than what they would be under the conditions set out by a government that is less progressive and agreed with sharia law. You may not know this but the country is divided almost equally between the two sides, so why should we take a side, when the outcome will be nothing short of more deaths and more American control. We cannot trust our own countries to get it right, so we would be better off staying out of it and letting them sort it out themselves. If our military want a job it should be with regards to providing humanitarian aid and supplies. These countries need help negotiating peace, not more weapons, more deaths and more terror.
Hypocrisy, is fighting for a country that tortures, slaughters and terrorizes other countries. And then judges terrorists for doing the same. You were not born to fight for your country, you were born to maintain humanity and moral pursuit.
At the end of the day it's all about the petrodollar and control. If you are prepared to fight for that then march on soldier.
Original post by pol pot noodles
if you hold a poll on TSR the results will be anything but 'everyone' agreeing with you.
TSR is full of inadequates, excluding myself of course. But rarely do you get good people speaking out, They are usually silent peaceful warriors.
Original post by DoubleYikes
No man or women has ever went to war or killed in my name. I would not let them.
Every soldier is a terrorist and every terrorist is a soldier. Just because the war is not on our soil, does not make these men and women heroes. They are naive, less than wise people.
I hope our future generations can wise up and realize that the military is for radicalized individuals that have little respect for peace or humanity.
They risk their life for their own stupidity and bad political reasoning, not for greater good. I will never support them whilst they maintain this agenda.
I know some of these kids are just naive and unaware of their unprincipled behavior. These soldiers can be easily forgiven, considering from the age of 16 years old they have been manipulated by older men and trained to be aggressive, but their are many soldiers who enjoy the kill and tallying their score.
Every soldier is a terrorist and every terrorist is a soldier. Just because the war is not on our soil, does not make these men and women heroes. They are naive, less than wise people.
I hope our future generations can wise up and realize that the military is for radicalized individuals that have little respect for peace or humanity.
They risk their life for their own stupidity and bad political reasoning, not for greater good. I will never support them whilst they maintain this agenda.
I know some of these kids are just naive and unaware of their unprincipled behavior. These soldiers can be easily forgiven, considering from the age of 16 years old they have been manipulated by older men and trained to be aggressive, but their are many soldiers who enjoy the kill and tallying their score.
To have a small rant due to the nonsense of a previous post.
Point One - No soldier is Terrorist... We DO NOT unlawfully commit a crime such as murder on another person. We DO HOWEVER cause damage to those who are a threat to us: Meaning (referring to the British Regulations currently in effect) - We cannot by LAW Shoot upon or cause damage to a person(s), estate (housing/building) or a vehicle unless we are threatened by the apposing party (shot upon!)
Those in the Armed Forces are NOT Naive or stupid one single bit - I know people who are in the Armed Forces, have Degrees in very hard subjects(Most being hard subjects to grasp and get a Masters' in) and they are wise, more wise than you obviously think.....
Point Two - The military aren't radical and do have respect for peace and humanity.. NOT EVERY Single job role in the Armed Forces involves an Infantry Role... There is a lot more to it than what you are currently thinking...! I shall list off some job roles and see what you think then..
Royal Logistics Corps
- This Corps is the Army's fundamentals..They make sure the Army is running.. This is done by: Chefs, maintaining of Barracks, transferring of equipment, and so on - No killing involved, and the chances of any of them coming into combat is slim.. - This is a NON-COMBAT ROLE
Veternary Corps
- This is also a Corps within the Army... This Corps deals with the animals that are injured through helping service personnel with searching for IEDs', Drugs and so on. - This is a NON-COMBAT ROLE
The list is endless... I am not going to list them all, I would be here for hours..!
Point Three - They risk their lives to PROTECT their Country, they are doing it to protect those who are within their own country... For Example: We are currently in Afghanistan ASSISTING the Afghan Police in getting their country back from what it was.. This is HELPING Others, and in return we are being PROTECTED (Those of us back in the US or UK and so forth)
Point Four - From the Age of 16 you are saying that those who CHOSE to enlist in the Armed Forces are being brainwashed, and are also naive...? For your information.. They are not naive.. They are doing what they CHOOSE to do! Nor are they trained to be aggressive... I have never seen a day when a soldier is aggressive towards another person.. Due to what they have been 'taught'... That Sir is utter Bull Crap...
Here is a small little fact for you: A person to join at the tender age of 16 is in need of PARENTAL CONSENT to do any job role within the Armed Forces (Focusing on the UK once more) - Thus being said a person at the age of 16 CANNOT and SHALL NOT Go to a battle environment and fight... They cannot do so by Law... Until they are of the Age 19 - Even then.. If a parent deems their child to not go into a Combat zone.. They don't.. Until the age of 21 - This is when you are an ADULT!
Now.. While a person is in Training (Basic or Phase One) - They are taught about Military attributes, Discipline (Drill, Domestic choirs such as cleaning up after themselves and so forth), they are also taught Respect.. This is done so they can be MORE Civilized than they used to be (No matter if they are Male or Female!) - Nor am I saying that anyone in the Armed Forces wasn't civilized before joining, the Forces just empathies this a bit more. Their second Phase is focused on their job role what ever this maybe..
Final Point - In all of my life.. I HAVE NEVER Come across a Service Personnel who has gloated about what they have done or seen whilst on an Operation.. (NOT MATTER THE GENERATION!) - If you think that 'Most' personnel get enjoyment out of killing another person and they want to gloat about it..
I would like to honestly meet them.. As I have come across a-lot of service personnel current and past who have said about what they have done... But when they bring up the subject of 'I had witnessed or did this' Then it is a different ball game all-together.. They become withdrawn and not wanting to talk about it.
Rant over: I went to Portsmouth Armed Forces day this year, met a lovely gentleman who was a veteran of the D-Day Landing Operation. He stood talking to me about his time at war, the conditions and what he has witnessed. - He was fine with telling me (a complete and utter stranger to this gentleman) - But he was happy to let others know what he went through. He had a lot of medals.. (None of which I can remember the names of unfortunately) - But none the less I found his talk very interesting. He then went on to explain about a medal that he had just received 70-years over due. This medal was on the news and this gentleman was a recipient of this medal. He had it kept out of harms way (in the box he has been presented with (Medal was inside).
After our conversation I shook his hand, thanked him for his service and went on my way. I had a great smile on my face after that, and still do to this day. It is great to hear the story's of what happened those many years ago, and makes us realize how lucky we are to be alive today. Without their service and gratitude we could possibly have been in worse times than we are now.
I would like to thank every member past and present for their service to their country (No matter the country) - They are all doing a good job in what they do, and well are fighting to keep us alive.
- I apologise for any grammatical errors in this post, my punctuation is very poor..
Just for a reference, I am joining the Armed Forces.. Does this make me stupid, naive, and possibly less wise than others around me due to the life I wish to live. - I don't think so.
(edited 10 years ago)
Hi Little Monkey. I have provided full and valid arguments against most of your points in previous posts and it's really too much to say again, but i will summarise.
Please note, from what i can see, you have a good writing ability.
________________________________
Firstly, you have to remember many people would also still be alive today if it were not for our armed forces. NATO, less than 3 months ago killed 10 kids (all under the age of 12) by dropping bombs on them. 16 year olds should not even be enlisted in the army even with their parents consent. Even if it is just to teach them cleanliness and discipline, this is all part of controlling the young mind to think like a soldier when they are better of thinking like an individual.
Legal does not mean moral, therefore anyone is capable of being a terrorist if they rely on law alone. Unless you are saying men in Saudi Arabia are correct to hit their women and suppress their freedom. After-all it is legal, but i am sure a few women if not many would say they feel terrorized by these legal actions of their men. As i have previously mentioned in a post a-fore this one when man looks to the law for guidance and not that of moral conscience he will inevitably be a poor excuse for a man.
As I have also said in previous posts intellect is not the same as wisdom. It's easy to be intellectual, but wisdom is based on compassion, humanity, moral integrity and all the good emotions that you are never taught in school. I have a masters degree and I am firmly apposed to war. You will get your intellects on both sides of the argument, but only the wise on the side that is apposed to war.
And Yes, joining the armed forces certainly makes you less of a wise man, perhaps not naive or stupid, but certainly unwise. You can choose to be anything you want in this world, but you choose to contribute towards destruction and death.
Please do not be misled by the medals, the hero status and the people that line the streets, it's all just propaganda and for every one of them that the media highlights to the Nth degree there may be twice as many that disagree, which the media will never highlight. These people are the quiet peaceful people who just hope one day soldiers will have a moral conscience.
I hope you don't, but if you ever go to war, remember that the enemy is always you. A man with a gun in his hand fighting for his country or secular group, brought up with certain beliefs and certain ideologies. A man prepared to kill for the often lies that a government feeds him. A man that condones collateral damage in the form of civilians. A man that will one day blame the government for his wrong doings, when in fact he is the one to blame because it was his choice.
Please check this video out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT6NRc37T_8 Universal soldier by Donovan.
Many people also join the army for the fitness, sports, camping etc...(I know a few), but you have to remember this is all in a lead up to killing.
I have informed you of a popular opinion of many. It is now up to you to make the decision. I am sure my opinion alone will not change your mind, but remember it is never too late to change.
Please note, from what i can see, you have a good writing ability.
________________________________
Firstly, you have to remember many people would also still be alive today if it were not for our armed forces. NATO, less than 3 months ago killed 10 kids (all under the age of 12) by dropping bombs on them. 16 year olds should not even be enlisted in the army even with their parents consent. Even if it is just to teach them cleanliness and discipline, this is all part of controlling the young mind to think like a soldier when they are better of thinking like an individual.
Legal does not mean moral, therefore anyone is capable of being a terrorist if they rely on law alone. Unless you are saying men in Saudi Arabia are correct to hit their women and suppress their freedom. After-all it is legal, but i am sure a few women if not many would say they feel terrorized by these legal actions of their men. As i have previously mentioned in a post a-fore this one when man looks to the law for guidance and not that of moral conscience he will inevitably be a poor excuse for a man.
As I have also said in previous posts intellect is not the same as wisdom. It's easy to be intellectual, but wisdom is based on compassion, humanity, moral integrity and all the good emotions that you are never taught in school. I have a masters degree and I am firmly apposed to war. You will get your intellects on both sides of the argument, but only the wise on the side that is apposed to war.
And Yes, joining the armed forces certainly makes you less of a wise man, perhaps not naive or stupid, but certainly unwise. You can choose to be anything you want in this world, but you choose to contribute towards destruction and death.
Please do not be misled by the medals, the hero status and the people that line the streets, it's all just propaganda and for every one of them that the media highlights to the Nth degree there may be twice as many that disagree, which the media will never highlight. These people are the quiet peaceful people who just hope one day soldiers will have a moral conscience.
I hope you don't, but if you ever go to war, remember that the enemy is always you. A man with a gun in his hand fighting for his country or secular group, brought up with certain beliefs and certain ideologies. A man prepared to kill for the often lies that a government feeds him. A man that condones collateral damage in the form of civilians. A man that will one day blame the government for his wrong doings, when in fact he is the one to blame because it was his choice.
Please check this video out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT6NRc37T_8 Universal soldier by Donovan.
Many people also join the army for the fitness, sports, camping etc...(I know a few), but you have to remember this is all in a lead up to killing.
I have informed you of a popular opinion of many. It is now up to you to make the decision. I am sure my opinion alone will not change your mind, but remember it is never too late to change.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by DoubleYikes
A man that condones collateral damage in the form of civilians.
You never stop, do you?
Why do you insist on talking about things you don't have the first clue about?
Original post by Drewski
You never stop, do you?
Why do you insist on talking about things you don't have the first clue about?
Why do you insist on talking about things you don't have the first clue about?
Do soldiers take a break from terrorising the world? No, so why should i stop.
If your a soldier, you don't have a clue about the other side. If your a soldier sympathiser or agreeable with war, you don't have a clue about the other side, if you are anti war, you don't have a clue about the other side.
The whole you don't have a clue thing can be applied to everyone who is or is not what the opposition is or is not, therefore your statement about not having a clue is nulled.
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
Original post by DoubleYikes
Do soldiers take a break from terrorising the world? No, so why should i stop.
Because you're wrong?
If your a soldier, you don't have a clue about the other side. If your a soldier sympathiser or agreeable with war, you don't have a clue about the other side, if you are anti war, you don't have a clue about the other side.
Wrong. Perfectly possible to understand multiple points of view.
Well, perfectly possible for us rational human beings who exist in the real world.
You? Not so much...
The whole you don't have a clue thing can be applied to everyone who is or is not what the opposition is or is not, therefore your statement about not having a clue is nulled.
It's not nulled in context. You state things, like the comment I quoted in post #80, as facts. They are categorically not fact. Such has been pointed out to you numerous times, by numerous posters, in this thread. Yet you continue to espouse them. That is very much the definition of "not having a clue".
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
What fresh jackassery is this?! An opinion that can be proven ceases being an opinion and becomes a fact. Try this new invention called 'science', it might be of interest to you. Gravity isn't Newton's opinion.
DoubleYikes
TSR is full of inadequates, excluding myself of course.
Ofc, I know at this point I'm being trolled [no rational human being could ever state the above with a straight face] but since we can't delete you - and we have this debate abut once a month - we might as well keep the thread here.
Original post by Drewski
Ofc, I know at this point I'm being trolled [no rational human being could ever state the above with a straight face] but since we can't delete you - and we have this debate abut once a month - we might as well keep the thread here.
LOL at my own comment. Still stands true, although i am sure there is a few on tsr that are of a wiser sentiment.
I will now leave with a few parting words'
If you have a clear conscience then that is all that should matter to you unless you are without conscience altogether, in which case i suggest you search for one.
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"
--------------------
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."
— Martin Luther King Jr.
----------------------------
The day the power of love overrules the love of power, the world will know peace."
— Mahatma Gandhi
---------------------------
"War is over ... If you want it."
— John Lennon
Take care
--------------------
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."
— Martin Luther King Jr.
----------------------------
The day the power of love overrules the love of power, the world will know peace."
— Mahatma Gandhi
---------------------------
"War is over ... If you want it."
— John Lennon
Take care
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