difference in masters and doctorates

just wondering, is a masters degree necessary for progression onto a doctorate? or is it possible to go straight from undergraduate to doctorate?

also, what is the difference between PhD, MPhil and MD?

thanks for any help :smile:

Reply 1

Klix88

It's more common in the sciences to go straight from undergrad to a PhD. In my humanities field, a Masters is usually a prerequisite for progression to a doctorate.

An MPhil is an intermediate level between Masters and PhD. It's sometimes the first year or eighteen months of the PhD. On successful completion of my MPhil, I should be able to undertake a formal Transfer (written report/thesis and viva) to complete a PhD two years after that.

As I understand it, an MD is the medical equivalent of a PhD, although I'm sure the definition is more refined and others can better advise.

Reply 2

MangoFreak

MD is a medical doctorate, equivalent to PhD, or a higher doctorate awarded for big stuff, depending on the university.

Medical doctors don't actually require MDs to practise (unlike the US and Canada).

Reply 3

car123

You do not need a masters to apply for a Phd, you can apply after your undergraduate course. That said, you should do you research and make sure that you're actually capable of handling the transition.

Master degrees, in some cases, can actually help you fill in the gaps in your undergrad knowledge. Moreover, you'll probably have to do a thesis which can give you a better idea of your Phd area. Keep in mind that Phds are usually at least 3 years, so they aren't a small investment.

Just to give you an example, if I'm a telecoms engineer who wants to do a Phd in photonics, but I've had little to no optical modules in my undergrad. I'd be better off doing an Mres or M.Sc. in the area before I apply for a Phd. (You'd probably get rejected if they see that you're not well equipped for the Phd anyway, but just to give an example).

Reply 4

Ellim

As has been said, a Master's is often a prerequisite for a PhD if you're in a humanities discipline. It is certainly a requirement if you would like to be considered for, and be in a competitive position to win, funding. I believe that this isn't the case in sciences but I don't know so don't want to comment.

If you're in the humanities and want to go straight from an undergraduate degree to a PhD you can do so in some countries. It's quite normal in the US - though these are significantly different programs to UK PhDs. If you're looking for something closer to the traditional UK 3 year thesis-based degree, you can normally go straight into a PhD from undergrad in Australia and New Zealand. Of course, funding is then an issue again.

Are you thinking more of the 'popular' notion of the MD (that is, the American MD)? I think that it is the equivalent of an MBBS here - which is not at all equivalent of a PhD in that is is not a postgraduate degree. A UK MD is a Medical research degree and is the equivalent of a PhD.

Reply 5

jdh7

You can go straight to a PhD from undergrad in Aus/NZ only if you have a first class honours degree. This takes an extra year over a standard Bachelor's degree and you need a high GPA to do honours. Otherwise you need a Master's degree. This applies across humanities and the sciences.

In my opinion, even if a Master's degree isn't needed, it's very useful for helping you decide whether a PhD is the right decision, which area you want to focus your research on, and which university/city you want to go to. I did my MS in the US and will be starting a DPhil in the UK in October (undergrad was in NZ). For me at least, doing an MS was absolutely the right decision even though it added two years to my time in university.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 6

Ellim

Original post by jdh7

You can go straight to a PhD from undergrad in Aus/NZ only if you have a first class honours degree.

You could get in with an H2A. I suspect that a British student from a good uni with a first would get in though, particularly if they self-fund.

In my opinion, even if a Master's degree isn't needed, it's very useful for helping you decide whether a PhD is the right decision, which area you want to focus your research on, and which university/city you want to go to.

Absolutely agree with this! In the UK a Master's will often only add a year to your studies, and not only will help you decide if a PhD is right for you, but will be good for funding applications.

Having said that - I did a research MA (in Australia) before doing my PhD in the UK. Everyone else in my cohort had undertaken a taught MA - and while I think I settled into the research much faster (and that has helped me be one of the very few to finish in 3 years) the taught MA wouldn't necessarily give you a good idea of how well suited to research you are (as many dissertations were only very short - shorter than my undergraduate (Australian honours) thesis, in fact.

Reply 7

CUFCDan

Original post by Ellim

You could get in with an H2A. I suspect that a British student from a good uni with a first would get in though, particularly if they self-fund.

Absolutely agree with this! In the UK a Master's will often only add a year to your studies, and not only will help you decide if a PhD is right for you, but will be good for funding applications.

Having said that - I did a research MA (in Australia) before doing my PhD in the UK. Everyone else in my cohort had undertaken a taught MA - and while I think I settled into the research much faster (and that has helped me be one of the very few to finish in 3 years) the taught MA wouldn't necessarily give you a good idea of how well suited to research you are (as many dissertations were only very short - shorter than my undergraduate (Australian honours) thesis, in fact.

Did a foreign masters hold you back, and did you self fund?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 8

Ellim

Original post by CUFCDan

Did a foreign masters hold you back, and did you self fund?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Having a non-UK MA absolutely didn't hold me back in regards to getting a place in a good PhD program in the UK (I'm at a Russell Group, top 5 department for my field). I have over-full funding (if 'full' is considered the AHRC rate) but actually 'take home' less because of higher international fees.

Having said that - I have both a (very high) First Class honours Bachelor's degree and an MA with a (very high) High Distinction - and the scholarships that I have (one that is for internationals only, one that my uni give about ten a year to anyone) are highly competitive and I wouldn't have funding had I not got exceptionally high marks. The competition for international funding is very high - so I don't want to give the impression that it's easy. It's not. But, it is possible to get great funding as an international.

Reply 9

Nichrome

In the physical sciences and mathematics, nowadays it's expected you'll have at least an undergrad masters (i.e. MSci, MChem, MPhys, etc..) at 2:1 or above, especially for the more maths orientated projects. A bachelors + postgrad masters (BSc + MSc) is deemed equivalent. Also increasingly common is combined masters and doctorates (1+3 PhDs) which only ask for bachelors, but the majority who get on to these have masters anyway. It's becoming increasingly rare for people to go straight from a BSc to a PhD in the physical sciences. I think in the biological sciences it's a lot more common.

Reply 10

CUFCDan

Original post by Ellim

Ah, are you Australian by birth? Just a lot of PhDs require a British masters. I'm interested because a master's abroad is an option for me. What's your discipline? I'm on for a very high first class BA as well.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 11

Ellim

Original post by CUFCDan

Yes, Australian by birth and now permanent resident in the UK (I never had a student visa, as my husband and daughter are both British). Submitting my PhD in a few months.

I think you'll find that a good Master's program from an international university won't hold you back. I know a number of people - both internationals and Brits - who have Master's from other countries and it's never been an issue. It's actually relatively straightforward for universities to 'convert' foreign grades into their own system. This is particularly true if you've got a good first (as you're on track for) and can get good grades in your Master's program (particularly any research/dissertation).*

I'm in a history-related humanities discipline.

*Although, I want to stress that this is just from my personal experience of myself and people I know. I don't work in admissions, although I have a very keen interest in higher education and try to keep up-to-date with HE admin policy etc.

Reply 12

username474976

Original post by Ellim

Having said that - I did a research MA (in Australia) before doing my PhD in the UK. Everyone else in my cohort had undertaken a taught MA - and while I think I settled into the research much faster (and that has helped me be one of the very few to finish in 3 years) the taught MA wouldn't necessarily give you a good idea of how well suited to research you are (as many dissertations were only very short - shorter than my undergraduate (Australian honours) thesis, in fact.

Do you think funding bodies prefer a research master's graduate over a taught one as a result?

Reply 13

sj27

Original post by CUFCDan

I've never seen a department say masters have to be British, can you give some examples?

Reply 14

Ellim

Original post by maskofsanity

Do you think funding bodies prefer a research master's graduate over a taught one as a result?

In short: no.

I have a research MA because that's what is done in my discipline in Australia. I didn't have an option between them. I'm the only person in my PhD cohort that has a research MA and I am by no means the only funded student.

I think the most important thing is to work hard, get good grades and good references, and present a good research proposal.

Reply 15

mja

Original post by MangoFreak

MD is a medical doctorate, equivalent to PhD, or a higher doctorate awarded for big stuff, depending on the university.

Or indeed a sub-PhD research degree, requiring a shorter period of study and a shorter thesis, with a lesser requirement for the extent of its contribution to scientific knowledge than for a PhD. All three possibilities exist at UK universities.