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I can somewhat understand the interrogation though they could have done that in a far more polite manner but I don't understand why they locked you up and forced you to leave when they had nothing against you?
Reply 21
Original post by Apocrypha
Side question, what country were you born in? Generally if you're muslim and have been in countries such as Pakistan, Israel arent gonna be nice to you.

If you were in the position you were in, you have to be a pro-Israeli if anything. You're view that you believe Jerusalem isn't Israeli wont get you into Israel.

Also declaring your reason for wanting to go, if you mentioned anything about journalism youd get shunted instantly, also if you said you specifically wanted to explore religous (specifically islamic) sites, you're also gonna get shunted.

Remember this is a country that once a Palestinian with Israeli citizenship leaves the country, they arent getting back in.

Their policies are pretty raw.


They didn't ask me my opinion on these matters. I told them I'm going to travel all over the country but concentrate most of my energies on Jerusalem. Raw indeed but as I keep saying to everyone, repression and discrimination being the norm in a specific place does not make these policies justifiable.
Reply 22
you lost me at the quote complaining that israeli women are "opinionated"

because god forbid
Original post by Inzamam99
They didn't ask me my opinion on these matters. I told them I'm going to travel all over the country but concentrate most of my energies on Jerusalem. Raw indeed but as I keep saying to everyone, repression and discrimination being the norm in a specific place does not make these policies justifiable.


I know, but Hamas, Hezbollah, or some group like Al-Nusra being consistently on your doorstep justifies it in a certain sense.

This is one of the reasons why Israel has such a low rate of internal terror attacks, the enemy cant get in, they have to rocket it or suicide bomb the borderlands.
Reply 24
Wow......

I intended to visit Israel one day as it is a fantastic place to see Historical sites....

But this has put me off completely, im never going, EVER! ....

As for people saying this would happen in Pakistan, No it would not. It would only happen if you were a suspected Indian Spy. There are places in Pakistan which have a lot of Americans and no one cares less, its just like their Pakistani. Obv the situation in rural lands are another story altogether and these are the stories which the Media focus on.....

But back on point - OP - Thank God you're back and safe.

EDIT - I dont mind Negs - But i feel you guys are prejudiced as to Judge Pakistan without even going? Honestly the people of Pakistan have more important things to worry about than a couple of foreigners..... like Life, Electricity, Economy, Kidnapping etc....
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 25
hahah here we go. I know people who have gotten into Pakistan with an Israeli stamp on their passports in ease and I suggested it was the only DEVELOPED country in the world which actively practices these policies to this extent. I mean a Palestinian Arab who was an Israeli citizen was in my cell. Your ridiculous comparison of Israel's policies with the ones you mention is unbelievable.

Typical of Israel supporters to shovel dirt on those who against them despite their respect personalities. McKinney suggested that the US Intelligence knew about the attacks based on circumstantial evidence which is not entirely unbelievable.

Folderol- the guy who keeps changing his nationality every now and then right? Well if he genuinely is Afghan and got in then kudos to him.

I can't be asked to go into futile debates with apologists like you who think something like this is even remotely justifiable tbh.
Reply 26
From your "friends" blog:

“You weren’t taken aside because you were born in Afghanistan, every 5 people are randomly taken aside.” No. Almost every one of the people being interrogated was Muslim or Arab. Your friend was probably suspected of being Muslim which brings me to...

He wasn't a Muslim- entry is thus far easier.

I won't be replying to you anymore. If you want then please see this as a victory on your part.
Original post by Inzamam99
hahah here we go. I know people who have gotten into Pakistan with an Israeli stamp on their passports in ease and I suggested it was the only DEVELOPED country in the world which actively practices these policies to this extent. I mean a Palestinian Arab who was an Israeli citizen was in my cell. Your ridiculous comparison of Israel's policies with the ones you mention is unbelievable.


It is very difficult to get into certain developed countries with certain stamps in your passport. I have Indian friends who have a hard time at UK customs, and know of a Pakistani man who was interrogated for hours when entering the United States. You, a teenage male who has visited Pakistan, turned up at Israeli border control on a holiday. I think they were justified in questioning you given the precarious nature of the threat there. It is a shame that the interrogation took the turn that it did, but I do not doubt that you probably acted in a way that was uncooperative. I would imagine that you would be angry (I would be too in such a situation - it is only normal). The policy is not inherently racist (though I don't doubt that some Israeli border security personnel are racists) - many white Brits and indeed Jews have been banged up in Israeli jails for jeopardising security at Ben Gurion.

Furthermore, you admitted yourself that you hold stereotypes of Israelis and even provided a quote from some fool explaining the "brainwashed" nature of Israeli women, who are apparently all "racist, arrogant bitches". Then a "man with a large hooked nose and puffy lips" arrives on the scene. Fantastic.

Your dismissal of my remarks on the nature of the Kurds in Turkey and the Syrian people shows your complete lack of awareness of the challenges these people face at the hands of their respective governments. I get the impression that you only care about the oppressed if its the Israelis who are oppressing them.

Typical of Israel supporters to shovel dirt on those who against them despite their respect personalities. McKinney suggested that the US Intelligence knew about the attacks based on circumstantial evidence which is not entirely unbelievable.


There is nothing respectable about McKinney. The woman is a raving conspiracy theorist who, in the aftermath of the worst attack on the US in decades, implored us all to consider that the president would have personally gained from such an event despite the incredulous stupidity of such an idea. She was a signatory of the "9/11 Truth Movement" (a group of idiot conspiracy theorists), and did not denounce her father when he made the statement that his daughter was being harassed because "Jews have bought everybody. Jews. J-e-w-s."

Folderol- the guy who keeps changing his nationality every now and then right? Well if he genuinely is Afghan and got in then kudos to him.


I am not going to debate the fact that you think an ex-user of this site, and a friend of mine, is lying about being from Afghanistan. That is beneath me.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Inzamam99
From your "friends" blog:

“You weren’t taken aside because you were born in Afghanistan, every 5 people are randomly taken aside.” No. Almost every one of the people being interrogated was Muslim or Arab. Your friend was probably suspected of being Muslim which brings me to...

He wasn't a Muslim- entry is thus far easier.

I won't be replying to you anymore. If you want then please see this as a victory on your part.


It has nothing to do with being a Muslim. Plenty of Muslims have not have the experience you have. Plenty of non-Muslims have.
Reply 29
Ah you provoke too much. In basic terms:

1) No. I did not provoke them or say anything impolite AT ALL. I was excessively polite throughout the whole thing and even allowed them access to my Whatsapp and text messages without hesitation despite this being a huge violation of privacy. Thanks for the assumption though douchebag. You remind of the blonde ***** interrogating me when she insisted she knew I was up to something and threatened to get me trouble with the Israeli and British governments if I didn't tell her exactly what.

2) White Brits and Jews may well have been banged up in an Israeli jail but this is far FAR rarer than similar treatment being meted out to Arabs and Muslim. I talk of my experience and two of my friends who went with the International Citizen Service last year- we are all testament to the fact that they were absolutely no white people or Jews being interrogated when we were there.

It absolutely astonishes me that you continue to persist in saying this policy is "not inherently racist". I repeat EVERY ARAB AND MUSLIM no matter what the stamps on their passports was getting interrogated. I had a female friend with me who had never been to Pakistan in her life and whose family had moved here in the 1950s. She had visited no "disreputable" countries also- she was held for 5 hours before being let through. Your continuous attempt to justify such things is despicable. Have you ever thought about beginning a campaign to lead SA back to apartheid?

3) We'll just agree to disagree about Ms. McKinney then.

4) Good for you and your "friend".

5) And as far as the stereotypical Jew with the big nose goes, it can't be helped that this particular individual had those features. Again thanks for assuming I meant it in an anti-Semitic way.
Reply 30
OK, I'll just dismiss the almost entirely Muslim population of the interrogation area as a coincidence then.

You just continue to keep your eyes closed and believe what you wish. If you go one day then just look across into that area and if you see a single white person, I will take back what I said and write a long article paying tribute to the glorious nation of Israel.
Original post by Inzamam99
OK, I'll just dismiss the almost entirely Muslim population of the interrogation area as a coincidence then.

You just continue to keep your eyes closed and believe what you wish. If you go one day then just look across into that area and if you see a single white person, I will take back what I said and write a long article paying tribute to the glorious nation of Israel.


It probably has something to do with the fact that the vast majority of people trying to blow up Israelis happen to be Muslims. Profiling may not be politically correct, but it certainly works.
Original post by Inzamam99
Ah you provoke too much. In basic terms:

1) No. I did not provoke them or say anything impolite AT ALL. I was excessively polite throughout the whole thing and even allowed them access to my Whatsapp and text messages without hesitation despite this being a huge violation of privacy. Thanks for the assumption though douchebag. You remind of the blonde bitch interrogating me when she insisted she knew I was up to something and threatened to get me trouble with the Israeli and British governments if I didn't tell her exactly what.


First of all I would like to apologise for being so abrupt earlier. I have been involved in discussions of this sort for years and they often get tiring and repetitive.

You obviously suffered from your experience, and no doubt I would too if I were so uncertain as to what was going to happen next knowing I was powerless to do anything about it. I know many people (not all of them Jews and not all of them white) who have been to Israel and did not encounter the treatment you did. I also know many people from Israel and have become acquainted with women who, after their two years in the military, are incredibly personable and certainly the opposite of the "masculine, aggressive, rude, opinionated, brainwashed, racist, bigoted bitches" the person you quoted speaks of.

I have also witnessed censorious mobs who wish to silence their opponents, so I know how heated these discussions can become. I have seen the way people purportedly demonstrating for the rights of Palestinians (but who are in reality comfortable, middle-class socialists with a burning desire to shake-off the imaginary shackles imposed by their parents and society) manage to intimidate and cajole people who represent Israel officially or are in anyway associated with Israel (which includes those who are willing to hear the Israeli side of the story). For many of these people, not condemning what they define as Israel's racism to a sufficient degree will lead to you being called an apologist for fascism or whatnot. The words of Orwell are probably apt here. The fact that these people will not consider directing the same amount of ire at the policies of Turkey towards the Kurds or the Russians towards the Chechens smacks of dishonesty and ignorance to me.

I have no desire to tell you that you did or did not have a bad experience in Israel. No doubt there are racists in Israel just as anywhere else, but I would encourage you not to judge all Israelis based on this, or indeed judge all Israelis based on the misdeeds of the Netanyahu government. Israel is not a pariah state, no matter how much people want it to be. It is now firmly part of the family of nations and the hostility towards it on the international state presented by the Communist/Arab bloc has faded away.It is my personal opinion that as long as Israel continues on the path of settlement-building and does not make serious efforts to strike a peace deal, its security is in danger. Israel faces the problems of a country that upholds a military occupation - entrenched racism, political violence, demonstrations abroad, and a demoralised and apathetic public. This isn't what Zionism is supposed to be As someone said, Jews didn't pray for thousands of years to return to Israel to find themselves ruling over millions of Palestinians who detest that fact. But it faces the dilemma of all powerful nations who confront security threats: if they deal harshly with those who present a threat they look like monsters, but if they don't deal with the threat at all then they are fools.

Many other countries, notably our own, have adopted Israeli methods with regards to anti-terrorism. Israel is not the only country in the world that commits crimes. If you want to help out the Palestinians, then that is fine. But I would advise you to remain aware that there are worse countries than Israel, and to single Israel out for criticism and isolation is the first step towards an unjustifiable bigotry.
Reply 33
I'll reply to you in more detail later but quickly- I'am most certainly aware of the atrocities happening in Muslim countries and reading various books including one of Anna Politskovkaya and the Angel in Grozny has made me fairly knowledgeable about Chechnya. All I was suggesting was that Israel is unique in the way that it promotes itself as a first world democracy with equal rights for all and yet continues to press ahead with settlement building and racism within its own borders and towards those who would visit it.
Reply 34
Original post by cosimakarateman
isralei is perhaps the most hated country by muslims, in particular foreign muslims, so its justifiable to them that they are susicous of you- add to that you come form a country Pakistan that is argueably the Islamic terrorism capital of the world right now. it is only logical you aregoing to be monitored, possibly harassed. I known that Malaysian muslims got harassed there, so you were bound to- in fact as I said I think you got off lightly, I wouldn't have been surpised if you had got the full strip search/interrogation treatment given you flew in from Pakistan, I mean how many pakistanis go on genuine holiday to Israel? You heard of the 'Coke Bottle Treatment' right - equally as someome has just pointed out, places like Pakistan , Saudi etc would hardly be welcoming places for an Israeli to visit either, so you've really nothing to be surprised about


I'am a British citizen and flew in from Heathrow airport.
Original post by Inzamam99
I'am a British citizen and flew in from Heathrow airport.


yes, as were many captured terrorist of pakistani origin around the globe. you can see then why the Israelis would be snooping around you. I have been to tel aviv, its a great party city actually, and even I had some security questions to answer- but obviously they wouldn't expect a paksitani to be going there for that.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 36
Original post by cosimakarateman
yes, as were many captured terrorist of pakistani origin around the globe. you can see then why the Israelis would be snooping around you. I have been to tel aviv, its a great party city actually, and even I had some security questions to answer- but obviously they wouldn't expect a paksitani to be going there for that.


Yes and that is exactly what I'am protesting. This innocent until guilty attitude which is pretty much a perfect tool for terrorists to recruit with.
Original post by Inzamam99
Yes and that is exactly what I'am protesting. This innocent until guilty attitude which is pretty much a perfect tool for terrorists to recruit with.


I don't see your point- most of those I referred to were guilty and locked up, or as in the case of those two pak brits hit by a drone in afganistan- taken out. whether Israeli border force is nice to you or not is irrelevant, there will always be islamist terrorists.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 38
Original post by Inzamam99
Hey guys. I visited Israel a couple of weeks ago primarily to see Jerusalem. Below is what happened.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/usman-chatta/mayhem-in-tel-aviv-my-experience-in-israel/10200635281577380


I'm assuming they didn't reimburse you for the ticket or any living arrangements you had already paid for?
Reply 39
Original post by 0906079
I'm assuming they didn't reimburse you for the ticket or any living arrangements you had already paid for?


Nope. In fact I had to add an additional £200 to my budget- unable to wait until my return flight, I booked an EasyJet flight asap through the guy from the British embassy.