PGCE: 'Physics with Maths' or 'Physics with Science'?

I also had this choice to make when I applied for this year. I feel that the Physics with Maths will become more popular but at the moment most jobs require general science at KS3. I discussed this with the teacher who is running the SCITT course I applied to, her advice was that Physics with Maths is a bit neither one nor the other and very few schools have a cross over between the two. I chose the safe route of Science with Physics but I wouldn't be too surprised to see more acceptance of the Physics with Maths in the future as both are in short supply so a teacher that can do either would surely be of benefit.
Since I made my decision I have had to rapidly revise my biology (which I only did up to year 9 and was over 25 years ago!) and my chemistry (GCSE only) and I have found that I actually enjoyed it. However, everyone has their own preferences. My suggestion would be to write down the pros and cons of each and also try to ask in different schools (easier said than done!) about their view on it and then go with what feels best. At my interview I mentioned the Physics with Maths option and the Headteacher said it may be possible to include some (this is a school run SCITT course so is under the control of the school and less fixed), so all options may be possible.
Best of luck with your decision!

Thanks for your help. I'm currently teaching all three sciences on my internship, and hold ASs in chemistry and biology, so it's not so much the lack of knowledge that worries me, just that it would be more interesting for me to teach maths and physics than science and physics. Thanks for your response, though.

Chances are wherever you go you will be teaching all 3 sciences, so I don't really see how physics with science differs from anyone else training in physics, biology or chemistry. If you include maths however you will be far more employable, as you could also apply for straight maths posts.


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It was my understanding that you train to teach maths on the physics with maths course in place of (as opposed to as well as) the other sciences, so I wouldn't be trained to teach the the sciences. I may still end up doing them, but surely that makes me a much weaker candidate compared to anyone offering physics with science?

You are right to be cautious. I have just started my NQT year, having completed a Physics with Maths PGCE. In retrospect, I think it was the wrong decision to choose this course. I would have been much better off with a traditional science PGCE, specialising in Physics. Going for the newer course has caused me a number of problems at various stages: during my PGCE, when applying for jobs, and even now in my NQT year.



PGCE Year

- The placements require the school to provide a mentor from both the science and maths departments. Many schools will not sign up to this, since these departments usually operate quite independently. PGCE providers will therefore have a smaller pool of placement schools in which to place student teachers, and you are more likely to get a long commute. This is what happened to me.

- Many placement schools will still get you to teach Chemistry and Biology. I was teaching all four subjects on my first placement, and was spread very thinly in terms of acquiring proper subject expertise in all of them.

- The pedagogy for science and maths is surprisingly different, although it sounds like you are happy doing both. I found science teaching much easier to get into than maths.

- You will be compared to the maths PGCEs by your mentor. Again, this might not be a problem for you, but my maths lessons weren't as good as those from people who were teaching only maths. And the gap only widened as the year went on.



Applying for jobs

- Most schools are indeed looking for science teachers OR maths teachers. Some places might be keen on the idea of having a science teacher who can help out with the maths, but even then you are usually talking about temporary arrangements until they can get a new maths teacher.

- In my limited experience, science interview lessons are often a biology topic. I didn't have any existing resources for any of my interviews, due to limited biology teaching during my PGCE.

- Of course, we are in such high demand that I didn't experience much trouble at the interviews themselves, but the maths thing didn't do me any favours. Schools were more concerned about my relative lack of biology and chemistry (although I don't think I actually lost out on any offers because of this).


NQT Year

- I am now in a science teaching job, and wishing that I had taught more chemistry and biology at PGCE. I have to spend hours finding and making resources that many of my fellow graduates have ready to use. Meanwhile my maths experience and teaching resources will likely never be used again, except perhaps in the odd cover lesson.




I will conclude by saying that my Physics with Maths PGCE course had a high dropout/failure rate, and most of the survivors swore off teaching maths (that includes some experienced older people who had been using a lot of university level maths in previous careers). One even arranged to switch to three sciences in their second placement without telling the college, on the advice of her mentor. I wish I had been given the same advice.

I suspect that this is not confined to my particular cohort, and more similar data will slowly emerge after a few more years. The IOP NQT survey certainly seems geared to pick up on trends like this, and they are one of the big advocates of PGCE Physics with Maths. If they change their stance, I can see the qualification being scrapped, especially if it fails to attract many engineers into the teaching profession (one of the main reasons for introducing it in the first place).

Well, that's ominous seeing as I'm about to begin training for a Physics and Maths PGCE. However, thank you for the detailed response - maybe if I'm aware of the pitfalls I won't be quite so caught up in them. Where did you train?