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Medicine Summer Discussion Series - How would YOU run the admissions process?

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Original post by Asklepios
You're not necessarily restricted to less universities. You're just interviewed by only one. This means more people can get interviewed and less interviews for any given applicant so less stress.

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I would argue the opposite. One interview, everything rides on it - no?
Reply 201
Original post by nexttime
Well yes that's quite a fundamental point that it would be interesting to try to assess the evidence for.

My personal feeling is that medicine is still an academically rigorous field. Making a diagnosis can still be a very complicated task. There may come a day when the volume and quality of evidence available enables a computer to do the calculations, at which point doctors would change to being data inputters and psychological supporters. That day isn't here yet though, and if i had a choice between someone with BBB and someone with AAA all else being the same, i think the choice is obvious.

Obviously you also want to choose the most empathetic, and most committed and the best communicators as well. A major draw-back in assessing these though is that they are very hard to get an objective measure of. The fact is, the entirety of a-levels and our education is set up to teach and then test us on academics. That same level of rigorous examination can't be replicated for something like comms skills. So even if we assess empathy to be the most important aspect of an application, that doesn't preclude making UMS (say) have the highest weight, just because its a (fairly) universal, objective, cheap measure of ability.

I get this, but I'd possibly rather have more weight on a potentially flawed, subjective measure of something of importance than an unnecessary weighting on academics just because it's more objective.
Can anyone actually give a good reason for the UKCAT, excluding SJA? (apart from it narrows down applicants). I'm saying this objectively because my UKCAT score was actually the strongest part of my application and the reason for me getting in but I still think it's a bit pointless.
Original post by TattyBoJangles
I would argue the opposite. One interview, everything rides on it - no?


there is the possibility of a 'bad day.' but also consider that, under this system everyone who gets the minimum grades should be interviewed despite having a bad day for the UKCAT/BMAT.
Original post by Asklepios
there is the possibility of a 'bad day.' but also consider that, under this system everyone who gets the minimum grades should be interviewed despite having a bad day for the UKCAT/BMAT.


Not necessarily a bad day, but lack of interview experience can really count against you. You could argue that one interview for each applicant means everyone has the same amount of interviews therefore it should be fair - but it wouldn't work like that in reality.
Original post by Asklepios
Personally, I think the admissions process should be more objective. Right now, there is a problem with 'scoring' personal statements as what one person thinks is good could be seen less highly by someone else. Obviously, academic score is objective but there is not enough discrimination as the majority of applicants get straight A/A*s. Maybe, medical schools could look at UMS (like Cambridge does). I think that more weightage should be given to academics and personal qualities should just be a pass/fail filter type thing.

Also, It might be more fair to have a centralised admissions process where applicants rank their medical schools, like the foundation programme applications.


Academics don't make a good doctor, those personal qualities you think aren't THAT important on the other hand DO.
Original post by flyylikejetz
Academics don't make a good doctor, those personal qualities you think aren't THAT important on the other hand DO.


I'm not saying personal qualities don't matter. I just disagree with the current system where your personal statement is so important and everyone feels they have to do volunteering and DofE. Hence, the amount of time someone has volunteered and what not isn't an accurate assessment of compassion. Personal qualities should be mostly assessed at interview and also in SJTs and other non-cognitive tests. This is so they are actually measured rather than using the candidate's/school's word for it.

Original post by TattyBoJangles
Not necessarily a bad day, but lack of interview experience can really count against you. You could argue that one interview for each applicant means everyone has the same amount of interviews therefore it should be fair - but it wouldn't work like that in reality.


Hmm... I think you are right. But there should be a system so that everyone who meets the requirements should at least get an interview imo. How about all the applicants with 4 rejections apply to a central board and get interviewed if they meet entrance requirements. They then get interviewed and allocated any vacant seats throughout the country. I think this is a fairer way than the waiting lists operated by some medical schools.

Original post by Hippokrates
Can anyone actually give a good reason for the UKCAT, excluding SJA? (apart from it narrows down applicants). I'm saying this objectively because my UKCAT score was actually the strongest part of my application and the reason for me getting in but I still think it's a bit pointless.


IMO, It is a bit pointless. Multiple Studies have shown that the UKCAT has no predictive value for medical school performance or performance at interview (1, 2, 3, 4) questioning its validity. Although I found one study which found it did predict performance (here). However, I don't think performance in years 1 and 2 is the point of the UKCAT really. I think the BMAT is a better test.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Hippokrates
Can anyone actually give a good reason for the UKCAT, excluding SJA? (apart from it narrows down applicants). I'm saying this objectively because my UKCAT score was actually the strongest part of my application and the reason for me getting in but I still think it's a bit pointless.


One thing's for certain: whoever came up with abstract reasoning was high as a kite.
Original post by bertstare
Lol why?


Absurd UCAS Tariff ranking. Oh well, I didn't want to apply there anyway after visiting it...
Reply 209
Original post by Hippokrates
Can anyone actually give a good reason for the UKCAT, excluding SJA? (apart from it narrows down applicants). I'm saying this objectively because my UKCAT score was actually the strongest part of my application and the reason for me getting in but I still think it's a bit pointless.


Some medical schools have I believe failed to find a predictive value for it, others on the other hand have. Newcastle in particular I believe reckon it accounts for a sizable chunk of the preclinical performance variance. If you can use this to set a cut off at 750 and avoid taking in 10 people who will subsequently resit or drop out then I'm all for it.

Medical schools where it does not provide any predictive value for their course do not necessarily have to weight it heavily. Though they might use it to reduce the administrative costs of scoring applications by ditching those below a threshold.
I think it's fairly clear the UKCAT is primarily just a way of making admissions easier. I don't think there is strong justification for it's use as a predictive indicator. It's probably the case that schools are confident admitting based on grades and PS alone, but the UKCAT helps reduce numbers.
Original post by flyylikejetz
Academics don't make a good doctor, those personal qualities you think aren't THAT important on the other hand DO.


Problem is, most people associate academics with intelligent people - the truth is intelligent people make the best doctors and have a greater net contribution to health care - abrring any medical condition.
Original post by MathematicsAnonymous
Problem is, most people associate academics with intelligent people - the truth is intelligent people make the best doctors and have a greater net contribution to health care - abrring any medical condition.


thats exactly it, from early on we associate intelligence with grades forgetting all other aspects that intelligence entails.
Reply 213
Original post by MathematicsAnonymous
Problem is, most people associate academics with intelligent people - the truth is intelligent people make the best doctors and have a greater net contribution to health care - abrring any medical condition.

True, but that's just one of a range of qualities that are very desirable. It's nowhere near as simple as that.

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