The Student Room Group

differentiation c1

find the y coordinate and the value of the gradient at the point P with x coordinate 1 on the curve with equation y=3+2x-x^2

I did
dy/dx=2ax+b

so -2x+2, I don't know what to do next
do I have to make -2x+2=1
and then solve for x?

the answer is 4,0
Reply 1
Original post by shana_t
find the y coordinate and the value of the gradient at the point P with x coordinate 1 on the curve with equation y=3+2x-x^2

I did
dy/dx=2ax+b

so -2x+2, I don't know what to do next
do I have to make -2x+2=1
and then solve for x?

the answer is 4,0


You've found the gradient function (dy/dx) for the curve.

You could envisage it like;

Gradient = -2x + 2

You're asked to find the gradient when x=1, can you continue from there?

For the y co-ordinate, i'm sure you can probably do that one also.
Reply 2
It tells you the x coordinate so you plug that into your y= (whatever)
So that's to find the y value.
When you differentiate an equation you get the equation of the gradient, which you have already, so the equation for the gradient is dy/dx= -2x +2
you do the same thing so plug your x value into the equation
Reply 3
Original post by Phichi
You've found the gradient function (dy/dx) for the curve.

You could envisage it like;

Gradient = -2x + 2

You're asked to find the gradient when x=1, can you continue from there?

For the y co-ordinate, i'm sure you can probably do that one also.

so -2(1)+2
therefore gradient is 0?
and to find the y coordinate do I have substitute 0 into the original equation?
Original post by shana_t
so -2(1)+2
therefore gradient is 0?
and to find the y coordinate do I have substitute 0 into the original equation?


Why not get an intuitive feel for this particular example by sketching and completing the square?
This will allow you to answer to answer what you as now asking.

It may help..
Original post by shana_t
find the y coordinate and the value of the gradient at the point P with x coordinate 1 on the curve with equation y=3+2x-x^2

I did
dy/dx=2ax+b

so -2x+2, I don't know what to do next
do I have to make -2x+2=1
and then solve for x?

the answer is 4,0


What does dydx\frac{dy}{dx} tell us? Well, it gives us the gradient at a particular point on a curve. So, first you need to find what dydx\frac{dy}{dx} is equal to, which you have found correctly: dydx(3+2xx2)=22x\frac{dy}{dx} (3+2x-x^2) = 2-2x

Now, you want to find the gradient at the point P, hence you need to substitute the x-coordinate into the differential whenever you see x, so you get:

At point P, dydx=22(1)\frac{dy}{dx} = 2-2(1), which equals what? (I'm sure you can do that!) This is your gradient at the Point P.

Now, the y-coordinate...well that's easy! Don't make the mistake of thinking dydx\frac{dy}{dx} will give you the y-coordinate, as it doesn't - as you know from above, it gives you the gradient. To find the corresponding y-coordinate when x=1 x=1 you need to substitute the value of x into the equation of the curve, which I'm sure you can do too.

I hope that helps!




Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 6
Original post by kingaaran
What does dydx\frac{dy}{dx} tell us? Well, it gives us the gradient at a particular point on a curve. So, first you need to find what dydx\frac{dy}{dx} is equal to, which you have found correctly: dydx(3+2xx2)=22x\frac{dy}{dx} (3+2x-x^2) = 2-2x

Now, you want to find the gradient at the point P, hence you need to substitute the x-coordinate into the differential whenever you see x, so you get:

At point P, dydx=22(1)\frac{dy}{dx} = 2-2(1), which equals what? (I'm sure you can do that!) This is your gradient at the Point P.

Now, the y-coordinate...well that's easy! Don't make the mistake of thinking dydx\frac{dy}{dx} will give you the y-coordinate, as it doesn't - as you know from above, it gives you the gradient. To find the corresponding y-coordinate when x=1 x=1 you need to substitute the value of x into the equation of the curve, which I'm sure you can do too.

I hope that helps!



Posted from TSR Mobile


thnx :smile:
Original post by shana_t
find the gradient of the curve where f(x)=x^3-3x+2 at the point A (-1,4)


I m stuck on this question
wt do I hv to do??


Do you understand that the differentiating to find f'(x) gives you the gradient function?
Reply 8
Original post by m4ths/maths247
Do you understand that the differentiating to find f'(x) gives you the gradient function?


thnk u for ur help, I got it :smile:
Reply 9
how to find the points on the curve with y=f(x), where the gradient is zero:
a) f(x)=x^3-9x^2+24x-20

here is wt I did, but its wrong
3x^2-18x=0
then factorise it -> 3x(x-6)
x=0 or x=6
y=0 or y=16

b) f(x)=x^3/2-6x+1
Reply 10
Original post by shana_t
how to find the points on the curve with y=f(x), where the gradient is zero:
a) f(x)=x^3-9x^2+24x-20

here is wt I did, but its wrong
3x^2-18x=0
then factorise it -> 3x(x-6)
x=0 or x=6
y=0 or y=16

b) f(x)=x^3/2-6x+1


The mistake is minor, you have differentiated your 24x wrongly, it should read f(x)=3x218x+24f'(x)=3x^{2}-18x+24

For part b) express this as f(x)=12x36x+1f(x)=\frac{1}{2}x^{3}-6x+1 now you can differentiate similarly to before (you can with x^3/2 but it may look more confusing that way for yourself ! )
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 11
Original post by kingaaran
But she doesn't say that her expression is f(x) f'(x) , instead she says it's f(x) f(x) , hence wouldn't you have to simply insert the x-coordinate?


Posted from TSR Mobile


It's f(x) for both of them we are trying to find the points when the gradient = 0 when the gradient is =0 f(x)=0f'(x)=0

So differentiate and set equal to 0
Original post by Robbie242
It's f(x) for both of them we are trying to find the points when the gradient = 0 when the gradient is =0 f(x)=0f'(x)=0

So differentiate and set equal to 0


Yes, sorry, I skim-read your post.


Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 13
Original post by shana_t
how to find the points on the curve with y=f(x), where the gradient is zero:
a) f(x)=x^3-9x^2+24x-20

here is wt I did, but its wrong
3x^2-18x=0
then factorise it -> 3x(x-6)
x=0 or x=6
y=0 or y=16

b) f(x)=x^3/2-6x+1


A) f (x)=x^3-9x^2+24x-20
first differentiate: dy/dx=3x^2-18x+24
Since grad equal zero=>3x^2-18x+24=0
factorise and (3x+12)(x-2)
x=-12 x=2
y=put -12 in first equation or y=0

:smile:

Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by S_ahmed
A) f (x)=x^3-9x^2+24x-20
first differentiate: dy/dx=3x^2-18x+24
Since grad equal zero=>3x^2-18x+24=0
factorise and (3x+12)(x-2)
x=-12 x=2
y=put -12 in first equation or y=0

:smile:

Posted from TSR Mobile


Is this correct? :smile:
Original post by S_ahmed
A) f (x)=x^3-9x^2+24x-20
first differentiate: dy/dx=3x^2-18x+24
Since grad equal zero=>3x^2-18x+24=0
factorise and (3x+12)(x-2)
x=-12 x=2
y=put -12 in first equation or y=0

:smile:

Posted from TSR Mobile


Since f(x)=x39x2+24x20f(x)=3x218x+24 f(x) = x^3-9x^2+24x-20 \rightarrow f'(x) = 3x^2-18x+24 , which you've said correctly. Then you've made it equal to zero, which too is correct.

3x218x+24=0(whenfactorised)(3x12)(x2)=0 3x^2 - 18x+24=0 (when factorised) \rightarrow (3x-12)(x-2)=0 This is your first mistake: you need a 12and2 -12 and -2 to make the constant. Then you've solved it incorrectly too:

You cannot just change the sign of the numbers; it doesn't work with every factorised polynomial - well, most at A Level. You need to use the proper method and make both of the factors equal to zero:

3x12=0orx2=0 3x-12=0 or x-2=0

When:3x12=0,[br]3x=12,[br]x=4 When: 3x-12=0,[br]3x=12,[br]x=4

Orwhen:x2=0[br]x=2 Or when: x-2=0[br]x=2

So the solutions (stationary points) are: x=2 or x=4. To find their corresponding y-values plug these into f(x) f(x) .


Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 10 years ago)
Sorry, ignore this post.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 17
Original post by kingaaran
Since f(x)=x39x2+24x20f(x)=3x218x+24 f(x) = x^3-9x^2+24x-20 \rightarrow f'(x) = 3x^2-18x+24 , which you've said correctly. Then you've made it equal to zero, which too is correct.

3x218x+24=0(whenfactorised)(3x12)(x2)=0 3x^2 - 18x+24=0 (when factorised) \rightarrow (3x-12)(x-2)=0 This is your first mistake: you need a 12and2 -12 and -2 to make the constant. Then you've solved it incorrectly too:

You cannot just change the sign of the numbers; it doesn't work with every factorised polynomial - well, most at A Level. You need to use the proper method and make both of the factors equal to zero:

3x12=0orx2=0 3x-12=0 or x-2=0

When:3x12=0,[br]3x=12,[br]x=4 When: 3x-12=0,[br]3x=12,[br]x=4

Orwhen:x2=0[br]x=2 Or when: x-2=0[br]x=2

So the solutions (stationary points) are: x=2 or x=4. To find their corresponding y-values plug these into f(x) f(x) .


Posted from TSR Mobile


thnx a lot :biggrin:
Original post by shana_t
thnx a lot :biggrin:


That's okay. If you need anymore help just send me a PM. :biggrin:


Posted from TSR Mobile

Quick Reply

Latest