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Nadh (+h)???

the reduced form of NAD is NADH but this is sometimes quoted as NADH + H(+). Can someone explain why? all the textbooks ive read just gloss this bit over.
Thought it was NADH2...
Which would make sense as to why it was quoted as NADH + H+
*Goes in search of textbook to find out*
Reply 2
Avatar for nikk
nikk
15
I would assume it is because two protons have come off the substrate, one of which is accepted by NAD+ and the other enters free solution. Either that, or both protons jump onto NAD+, and then one immediately dissociates to leave NADH and H+ (not sure about the latter though).
Reply 3
Avatar for The Caretaker
The Caretaker
OP
5
but what is the negatively charged particle which balances the H+ ion? you cant just have free H+ ions floating around without a balancing molecule. And another question, why do textbooks say that for photosynthesis water is both used AND produced in the reaction. I mean i know that water is used in the light dependent reaction to give the photosystem replacement electrons but when is it produced?
Reply 4
Avatar for Revenged
Revenged
15
The Caretaker
but what is the negatively charged particle which balances the H+ ion?


An electron, which has been gained by NADH during reduction
Reply 5
Avatar for The Caretaker
The Caretaker
OP
5
but in chemistry a "golden rule" as it were is that charged particles cannot exist on their own. for example for every Na+ there must be a Cl-, for every H+ there must be a SO4- or NO3- or Cl- and so on. So what's the other part of the H+ ion in this case?
Reply 6
Avatar for Revenged
Revenged
15
The Caretaker
but in chemistry a "golden rule" as it were is that charged particles cannot exist on their own. for example for every Na+ there must be a Cl-, for every H+ there must be a SO4- or NO3- or Cl- and so on. So what's the other part of the H+ ion in this case?


H+ is really H30+
Reply 7
Avatar for The Caretaker
The Caretaker
OP
5
that's still not telling me what the negatively charges species is. Im guessing its the organic compound now. after the deprotonation the organic compound becomes [Organic]- ion. I guess the easiest way would be not to mix chemistry and biology!
Reply 8
Avatar for Revenged
Revenged
15
nikk
I would assume it is because two protons have come off the substrate, one of which is accepted by NAD+ and the other enters free solution. Either that, or both protons jump onto NAD+, and then one immediately dissociates to leave NADH and H+ (not sure about the latter though).


Yep, that's right...

MH2 + NAD+ → NADH + H+ + M

where M = substrate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinamide_adenine_dinucleotide
Reply 9
Avatar for Revenged
Revenged
15
The Caretaker
that's still not telling me what the negatively charges species is. Im guessing its the organic compound now. after the deprotonation the organic compound becomes [Organic]- ion. I guess the easiest way would be not to mix chemistry and biology!


I don't know what you are on about...

Reduction with NAD a hydrogen ion (i.e. a proton) and an electron are gained...

The source of the proton and electron is the hydrogen from the substrate...
oxidised form: NAD+
reduced form: NADH + H+
charge conserved, proton gained. what's the problem?
Reply 11
Avatar for Revenged
Revenged
15
darkenergy
oxidised form: NAD+
reduced form: NADH + H+
charge conserved, proton gained. what's the problem?


lol, i have no idea :cool:
Reply 12
Avatar for Latkan
Latkan
2
don't waste your time on this. Learn about the kidneys :wink:

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