Neo-Ottomanism for peace in the middle east

the middle east currently suffers from civil wars and sect wars. the people chopping hands, cutting throats of its own people. However, in the ottoman period there were no such conflicts, wars among the people living in the middle east and the people were living in peace, unity and solidarity. So I wonder whether or not we the middle easterners could bring the ottoman soul back into this century and live in peace, unity and solidarity against all attacks of the imperialists? or what can we do for peace in the middle east?

Reply 1

username196545

19

Yeah, I for one would love a return to the Janissaries.. :curious:

Reply 2

The Angry Stoic

18

The irony that you think the solution to combat the 'imperialists' is to make an empire.

Reply 3

hellomoto170

14

No thanks. There's a reason the Ottoman empire no longer exists. And I'm Turkish.
EDIT: I should probably add, you've not offered any sort of explanation or what this would consist of. But an empire would not help bring about peace.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 4

yigit58

OP

7

I'm not saying that we should literally rebuild the ottoman empire, it can't be anyway, because it is impossible in this century and in the middle east the dominance of a certain family or a certain nationality. I think that This empire must be based on democracy like the eu. I'm aware that it may be a utopia considering the current situation in the middle east but we have to do something in order to take the imperialists' hand off the middle east and bring peace into this region.
I also think that the reason of the ottoman empire doesn't exist anymore is the efforts of the imperialist countries. they always wanted to break the ottoman empire down to occupy the middle east. I'm not saying that the ottoman empire was innocent but we can't ignore the imperialists' efforts to collapse the ottoman.

Reply 5

Steevee

15

Original post by yigit58

I'm not saying that we should literally rebuild the ottoman empire, it can't be anyway, because it is impossible in this century and in the middle east the dominance of a certain family or a certain nationality. I think that This empire must be based on democracy like the eu. I'm aware that it may be a utopia considering the current situation in the middle east but we have to do something in order to take the imperialists' hand off the middle east and bring peace into this region.
I also think that the reason of the ottoman empire doesn't exist anymore is the efforts of the imperialist countries. they always wanted to break the ottoman empire down to occupy the middle east. I'm not saying that the ottoman empire was innocent but we can't ignore the imperialists' efforts to collapse the ottoman.

I love how you say 'imperialist' as if it's a dirty word, when the Ottomans were just the same. Anyway, you'll find the 'imperialist' treatment of the Middle East was no worse than the Ottoman treatment. No doubt you've heard a romanticised version of what the Ottoman Empire was. Do you know for instance that the Ottoman Empire was the last Empire to abolish slavery? And used to enjoy making Eunuchs of young boys right into the 19th century?

Reply 6

The Angry Stoic

18

Original post by yigit58

I'm not saying that we should literally rebuild the ottoman empire, it can't be anyway, because it is impossible in this century and in the middle east the dominance of a certain family or a certain nationality. I think that This empire must be based on democracy like the eu. I'm aware that it may be a utopia considering the current situation in the middle east but we have to do something in order to take the imperialists' hand off the middle east and bring peace into this region.
I also think that the reason of the ottoman empire doesn't exist anymore is the efforts of the imperialist countries. they always wanted to break the ottoman empire down to occupy the middle east. I'm not saying that the ottoman empire was innocent but we can't ignore the imperialists' efforts to collapse the ottoman.

Unfortunately Islam isn't really compatable with democracy so that would be difficult.

Reply 7

yigit58

OP

7

Original post by Steevee

I love how you say 'imperialist' as if it's a dirty word, when the Ottomans were just the same. Anyway, you'll find the 'imperialist' treatment of the Middle East was no worse than the Ottoman treatment. No doubt you've heard a romanticised version of what the Ottoman Empire was. Do you know for instance that the Ottoman Empire was the last Empire to abolish slavery? And used to enjoy making Eunuchs of young boys right into the 19th century?

If we look through the number of countries dominated by the ottoman empire in the middle east speaking in Turkish currently, we can find out the ottoman was an imperialist or not. the ottoman empire never imposed their culture or their religion on the people there was a genuine freedom in the middle east at the period of the ottoman empire not such a freedom as in Iraq.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 8

AttackofTheBoris

1

In the Ottoman times there wasn't a large youth bulge, that is what's causing all the problems.

Reply 9

<<The_Shade>>

5

Original post by The Angry Stoic

Unfortunately Islam isn't really compatable with democracy so that would be difficult.

Haha, that's what the media says.
But the leaders of the US and the rest of the Western World knows that democracy favours Islamists. If you want evidence there is sufficient, look at Egypt for starters. Islamists swept every democratic election ever to be held in Egypt. Then next look at Iran and its history.

What the Western world wants, and what they want us to believe is what you are saying. Its the West that does NOT want democracy in the Muslim World. They know for surety that democracy in these lands would go against their interests.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 10

<<The_Shade>>

5

Original post by yigit58

If we look through the number of countries dominated by the ottoman empire in the middle east speaking in Turkish currently, we can find out the ottoman was an imperialist or not. the ottoman empire never imposed their culture or their religion on the people there was a genuine freedom in the middle east at the period of the ottoman empire not such freedom in Iraq.

This true what you are saying.

But then there is a reason for the End Times. There should be a reason for Imam Mahdi. And there should be war for Jesus Christ. I'm saying in a religious sense.

Its clear the change is irreversible, and we all know who and what caused it.

If you think that it'll do more good than harm trying to return back to the good old days there is many Jihadi websites out there.

Posted from TSR Mobile

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 11

yigit58

OP

7

Original post by <<The_Shade>>

This true what you are saying.

But then there is a reason for the End Times. There should be a reason for Imam Mahdi. And there should be war for Jesus Christ. I'm saying in a religious sense.

Its clear the change is irreversible, and we all know who and what caused it.

If you think that it'll do more good than harm trying to return back to the good old days there is many Jihadi websites out there.

Posted from TSR Mobile

so you say that we shouldn't force God :smile:

Reply 12

username196545

19

Original post by yigit58

If we look through the number of countries dominated by the ottoman empire in the middle east speaking in Turkish currently, we can find out the ottoman was an imperialist or not. the ottoman empire never imposed their culture or their religion on the people there was a genuine freedom in the middle east at the period of the ottoman empire not such a freedom as in Iraq.

It's hard to speak about the Ottomans as one sort of homogeneous group; it was an empire spanning over 600 years, it's not one Sultan it's the sum of many.

And you're saying the Young Turks (who very much were a part of Ottoman history) never imposed their culture on anyone else? Really? :curious:

I definitely don't think you could say that after the second constitutional period.

It's true the Ottomans never enforced the Turkish language, or enforced Islam, but damn did the people know it.. By not speaking Turkish there was zero social mobility for the majority of the population of the Ottoman empire (The Arabs were the second biggest ethnic minority group in the empire after the Balkans, combined these were a larger percentage than ethnic Turks). Not speaking Turkish meant pretty much no freedom. Likewise, Christians weren't forced to convert but many did simply due to the taxes that were forced on them and the different laws which unfairly worked against them (Cizye tax for instance, replaced by bedl-i askeri after the 1839 Tanzimat. These were hardly non-discriminatory.)

Reply 13

Skip_Snip

3

As long as a certain "peaceful" religion is at large, the Middle East will never be peaceful.

Reply 14

ImNew

Lots of people want to rebuild the islamic caliphate, most of them belong to terrorist groups.

Reply 15

yigit58

OP

7

Original post by Bubbles*de*Milo

It's hard to speak about the Ottomans as one sort of homogeneous group; it was an empire spanning over 600 years, it's not one Sultan it's the sum of many.

And you're saying the Young Turks (who very much were a part of Ottoman history) never imposed their culture on anyone else? Really? :curious:

I definitely don't think you could say that after the second constitutional period.

It's true the Ottomans never enforced the Turkish language, or enforced Islam, but damn did the people know it.. By not speaking Turkish there was zero social mobility for the majority of the population of the Ottoman empire (The Arabs were the second biggest ethnic minority group in the empire after the Balkans, combined these were a larger percentage than ethnic Turks). Not speaking Turkish meant pretty much no freedom. Likewise, Christians weren't forced to convert but many did simply due to the taxes that were forced on them and the different laws which unfairly worked against them (Cizye tax for instance, replaced by bedl-i askeri after the 1839 Tanzimat. These were hardly non-discriminatory.)

I'm impressed with your knowledge that you have :smile:

So do you think that is there any possibility of establishing a united country in the Middle East like the EU?

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Reply 16

User414413

18

OP you might be interested in David Fromkin 'Peace to end all peace (The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East)', I can't comment on it 'cause it hasn't arrived for me yet but it's supposed to be highly-acclaimed.

Reply 17

<<The_Shade>>

5

Original post by Bubbles*de*Milo

Likewise, Christians weren't forced to convert but many did simply due to the taxes that were forced on them and the different laws which unfairly worked against them (Cizye tax for instance, replaced by bedl-i askeri after the 1839 Tanzimat. These were hardly non-discriminatory.)