The German Football Thread

Yea, and that is why my entire family hates Bayern. Not sure what that has to do with RB though?

If anybody is in Munich until next Sunday drop me a PM. We're hoping to catch 1860 v RB on the 11th but if you fancy a drink and can show us round that'd be great


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How long will the sum of it's parts thing last for? A season or two at best while Bayern buy their players. Bayern since the start of the bundesliga have been raiding any club that has challenged them. E.g. when Bayern came 3rd in 2011 they got Heynckes as a coach who managed Leverkusen who came 2nd. There's Karlruhe, Dortmund, Leverkusen etc. as examples of teams they've raided who were superior to Bayern at some point of their history. Lets be serious here, it's not going to change any time soon. Dortmund could possibly increase their revenues Arsenal style and raise up the ticket prices to a ridiculous amount e.g. but I doubt that will happen.

Schalke can have a golden generation but they'll have their players picked like flies like what has happened to Dortmund. Even if Dortmund stabilizes they'll still be a long way from reaching Bayern.

This is withstanding the chance that Bayern could have a golden generation of players once again. Players like Can e.g. left early but could have easily made the team in the future and even the likes of Toni Kroos and holger badstuber weren't actually youth squad products and were bought around 13-17 from professional football teams. Bayern are like the Madrid and Barcelona's of their league. It'll take a Liverpool esque ****-up to stop that from occuring and even then Liverpool had teams like United+Arsenal exploit the premier league and CL boom. Also the money clubs came in too. You don't see that happening in the bundesliga any time soon.

Because RB can actually attempt to break the monopoly while none of the other teams will do so. It's a pipe dream, there's literally a 2 year window this next decade where teams can come in and that just means that Bayern will get their players.

They did the same in the 80s, did the same in the 90s, did the same in the 00s. What makes anybody think that they won't just get a feeder club again?

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Unfortunately not in Munich ut here are my tips as a London fella who tried to fit in! Always have a bottle of Augustiner Heller in your hand(it costs les than water). If another then, Spaten, when holding it you should hold it like a grenade and make loud comments(in bavarian hopefully) about how the guy only had Spaten...
An old Bavarian guy will never ever start on you if you are holding a bottle of Augustiner Brau...It is literally as close to camouflage as exxistst in Munich!!!

Ok so there are 3 conversations for real Muncherers:
If you meet this guy,


talk aout ''Lowen'' and der ''Schwein'' exclusively
1)1860's prospects. (always on the verge of overtaking Bayern)
2)Prussians at the Oktoerfest

Learnt that the hard way. Mid way through a half-Dutch/half-German rant about Augustiner at their hall by the train station, they decided I was a Prussian...never been the same sense

2)Dutch people are respected like geniuses when it comes to money, but treated like lepers worse than Turks when it comes to religion....
3)Lutherans....
4)Augustiner, and why am I accepting something other than Augustiner?
5)I think Americans are getting the best Augustiner...

My advice is go to to the augustiner bräustuben and then go North to schwabing


My most bit of advice for fitting in, is holding/speaking about anything non-Augustiner like a warm bottle of piss... In most circles Bayern Munchen has the same reputation

I watch the final of the U-19 German team against Portugal right now. Germany is 1-0 ahead and nine minutes are left. Anyone who watches this at the moment too?

That's too simplistic imo, and the examples you used aren't fitting. The situations of the clubs Bayern weakened in the past aren't comparable to BVB's or S04's today. For reference, I'll just quote myself




What they've done to Dortmund (and are still doing if Reus joins them) fits this scheme so you have a point, but you can't compare e.g. BVB's situation with that of any of those clubs, both regarding their financial situation/situation in the transfer market and the effects Bayern's "attacks" had.

BVB have been stabilising for years. You have to look at their development in the last 7 years as a whole to see they're on the rise. They went from impeding financial ruin to signing a sponsorship deal that puts some other big clubs' deals to shame and gives them new financial possibilities, all that through clever management. It's a long-term development and nothing indicates that they're at the end of it. Ofc they've lost several key players in the process but always managed to find good replacements, and that without spending huge sums but relying on their own scouting. They'll probably lose Reus for a laughable sum too, but he's the only player in the squad with a release clause atm. Meanwhile they managed to give e.g. Hummels a long-term contract and could easily demand a huge sum for him. Same goes for other players, most of which have even rejected more profitable offers to stay at BVB (e.g. Kuba).

Looking at Schalke, it's unlikely that they'll have their players 'picked like flies'. Unlike BVB, they have included huge release clauses for all their promising youngsters and don't cave in when a "good enough" offer is put on the table either - cf. Arsenal's Draxler bid. Losing e.g. Draxler and Meyer would bring them €70m (and that's with Meyer's current contract, chances are he'll sign a new contract with an increased fee at one point), which would mean a huge step towards financial stabilisation for them. At the same time, they have enough talent coming through the ranks to fill the voids.

Neither of the clubs in the list I posted were in such comfortable or promising situations when Bayern came in to weaken them, and while Bayern will contintue to do that to clubs, it's harder for them to weaken them enough to send them into obscurity. The way Schalke have set up their youth academy and go about their youngsters financially leads me to think that they'd have even less problems than BVB coping with such losses. You also have to wonder how Bayern's policy will look once the old guard in the board leaves for good. IMO they have started to show tiny signs of willingness to change in certain regards. Admittedly though, this is a weak point and more of a hypothetical possibility than something I actually expect to happen.

Bottom line is that while Bayern is still Bayern, the situations of other clubs have definitely evolved and right now there is cause for optimism, even with the 50+1 rule. Neither BVB nor S04 will break Bayern's dominance in the very near future, but they're on a good route to do it once their ongoing development is complete. As I said before though, it's true that if you want the overall competition in the league to increase (going beyond a few promising clubs like BVB), the 50+1 rule must go, but I don't think that's a realistic scenario ATM.

About RB, depends on how they'll be sanctioned by the DFL when they'll get the first division license (IF they get it). The DFL will surely show some sort of reaction as well and look to update the rules again. For the record though, Leverkusen do not break the 50+1 rule, they just exploit loopholes, so they're not immediately comparable to RB.

I agree that the teams are in a better position to break the dominance, does that mean that either will break the dominance? I don't think so. Dortmund won't be significantly decimated like Leverkusen e.g. but it's a different situation to Arsenal in the premier league, the profile of player that Bayern will go for will always be bigger than the profile of player that Dortmund or Schalke go for and they can't offer wage wise what Bayern can. Bayern win more trophies, that brings them more money via winning competitions.

Although I think wage budget is more important than transfer budget. You're more likely to get a top player on the cheap with high wages than to buy a top player for a high fee and give them low wages. Cases in point (Andy Carroll vs Toni Kroos who are opposites on this scale). So even if BVB gets a nice fee for a player, are they going to reinvest and destroy the wage structure, or just buy players for good money on low wages?

Although since you said that BVB have made a big sponsorship deal. How does that compare to Bayerns deals and general revenues? I'd expect Bayern to still blow them out of the water regardless of the sponsorship deal and the extra success they've made from that will stay. I'll be 50 by the time Bayern finish their dominance. Only way I see Bayern messing up is if they lose a lot of money and get sanctioned heavily for a scandal. Probably won't happen.

On a more football-related note though, judging from Bayern's preseason games, Pep seems to be going for a 3-4-3 this season, with Alaba and Lahm in midfield. Will be interesting to see where this leaves Götze, as Thiago is probably more suited to take the attacking-focused CM role in this system. Götze could be rotated with Ribéry, which seems likely, or with Lewandowski, which does not, or then Pep will alternate between different systems to accomodate him. Either way, right now it doesn't look like he'll get significantly more playing time this season than last season, which is really not ideal for his development and a waste of talent considering he has what it takes to become their best player when only given enough playing time and not having to play out of his natural position.

Yeah, don't have the exact numbers but their new Evonik deal is worth around €250-300M altogether; this includes two capital increases for more than €50m plus extension of their current deal until 2025 which will bring them €18m per year (as opposed to the €10m p/y they got until now). In practice, this means they'lll be able to raise their wage budget by ~ €40m to €120m altogether, which allows them to offer e.g. Reus the 2m more that might convince him to stay rather than **** off to Bavaria. Of course they are still behind Bayern (who get 27m per year from Telekom and got more than 100m from Allianz earlier this year) but it's a huge, huge step.

Tbh though, they don't need to reach Bayern's level in order to challenge for titles every season. As someone (think Zürich) said before, Bayern aren't always as OP as they are now and usually their dominance is 'broken' every other season:

Champions From 2000 onwards: Bayern, BVB, Bayern, Werder, Bayern, Bayern, Stuttgart, Bayern, Wolfsburg, Bayern, BVB, BVB, Bayern, Bayern
Pokal: Bayern, Schalke, Schalke, Bayern, Werder, Bayern, Bayern, Nürnberg, Bayern, Werder, Bayern, Schalke, BVB, Bayern, Bayern

... So the current situation isn't 100% representative. Now if we expect BVB to further stabilise and Bayern's current cycle to end (which it will sooner or later), we'll probably see them make the list more often; same goes for Schalke if they manage to sort out their finances.

That said though, the BuLi was never the most interesting league if you're interested in competition at the very top; but the competition in the other parts of the table is quite exciting, at least until recently. You never have a set top 7 or 8 like in the PL and there's a good chance that the whole table will be turned upside down in the following season, so there is a great amount of unpredictability; not to mention that the level of football isn't bad either. On the flipside, this lack of consistency means that most teams **** up majorly in international competitions, cf. Leverkusen.

But I agree with you in principle of course; so do most BuLi fans. And now Rummenigge hinted at potentially going for Reus next year... We can always hope that Bayern suffer once Uli Hoeneß and the rest of the gang are gone for good though

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But what you could really see already this game, is the philosophy Löw and Klinsmann introduced, I saw them play in situations like our national team would.

Yeah agree.

I'm not entirely sure whether Bayern will cock up this time though. They're averaging 90 points the past 2 seasons. I don't see that level of performance dropping yet and if it does it'll be around the 80 point mark. So we're going to be asking a lot of Dortmund to beat that. Then again La liga had 2 teams on 90+ points usually and now nobody got 90 so things can change.

If they can seam the Schweinsteigger and Lahm transition well enough then they'll be sorted for the future.

Also interested with the 3-4-3 you're talking about. I'm a big fan of 3atb formations. So I assume two wingbacks/defensive wingers. Robbery flanking Lewandowski. Where would this leave Muller? Thiago has a spot for sure, Schweinsteigger probably has a spot if not Lahm so is Muller just going to be backup striker/winger/rightback? I reckon Pep will learn from last time and not **** about with the formation too much. Main thing is to get early season momentum, worst thing for Bayern to do is to be playing catchup imo as it can give Dortmund confidence if they've got a 5 point lead.

Just need an Arab to come in and buy them lol

50 + 1 rule means it's very difficult for an individual to fund football clubs. There have been loopholes that have been exploited by Hoffenheim and Wolfsburg/Bayer have unique relationships with corporations which fund them, but in general a billionaire cant just buy a club.