The "I'm an American considering applying to Oxford" thread

Hello! I know on the Oxford page for American applicants it states that they look for 3 700s/5s and a 2100/32. I was wondering if everyone who applies has these scores, like is it a requirement? I have these scores but I just was wondering the score distribution! Thanks so much

Hi, I'm planning on applying for ppl at Oxford and I was wandering if I was required to take AP exams (this would be a problem because I can't ).

Hi, I'm planning on applying for ppl at Oxford and I was wandering if I was required to take AP exams (this would be a problem because I can't ).

How do PPE tutors view a 4 in BC (and a 5 AB subscore), if the rest of the application is extremely competitive (good # of APs, very high TSA score)? For what it's worth, I'm currently taking Calc III online, and should move to linear algebra in a month (I was hurt on the AP because I finished my Calc BC course several months before the exam). Are there some colleges that would be better than others to apply to in this situation? I'm confident of my math ability (and have ECs to prove it), including in an interview situation.

What would it take for someone with the minimum qualifications (say, 3 low 700s in SAT II and a <2150 SAT I score) to get accepted to Oxford? Clearly it's possible, or the minimum would simply be higher. Would topping the TSA and writing a fantastic personal statement (perhaps with details of relevant work experience and competitions won) achieve it?

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not in this situation, I'm just trying to get a better idea of how the admissions process works.

What would it take for someone with the minimum qualifications (say, 3 low 700s in SAT II and a <2150 SAT I score) to get accepted to Oxford? Clearly it's possible, or the minimum would simply be higher. Would topping the TSA and writing a fantastic personal statement (perhaps with details of relevant work experience and competitions won) achieve it?

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not in this situation, I'm just trying to get a better idea of how the admissions process works.

Does anyone know what is acceptable as a supporting document for visa application? The evidence considered for my acceptance was AP and SAT tests, but I don't have any originals for those since the scores are reported online, and I don't know a way to get collegeboard to send scores to the consulate.

?? Your scores are not evidence of acceptance.

And, according to the Visa people:

Students of low-risk nationalities attending courses with sponsors that hold
Tier 4 Sponsor status do not normally have to present documents at the
visa application stage in respect of their educational qualifications,
although the Home Office reserves the right to ask to see the evidence.

The US is a 'low-risk nationality'.

Did the consulate tell you that you needed this, or are you interpreting the guidelines for yourself? If you actually need your AP scores, I am pretty sure that a certified copy will do.

Not at all, your explanation was accurate. Those are among the reasons I chose to study it in the UK. Additonally, I chose to leave India because I hate it. I chose the UK over the US because I didn't want to pay for 7 years of education and I liked the UK more as a place.

The common law bit that Mishieru mentioned, while being an advantage, was only a minor reason seeing as I would prefer not to return to India.

I am, in fact, looking at American qualifications after this but have no intention of pursuing them at the moment. If I am able to, in the future, do an LLM from NYU or Columbia (or perhaps a good law school outside New York) then I just might. It's certainly an attractive prospect. But as of now my future seems to be London

Posted from TSR Mobile

There is no technical reason not to do what you are proposing- read Law at Oxford, then apply to Law School in the US. A couple of things to think about, though:

A good number of the Law students that I know wish they had done a different course, and then done the UK Law conversion course (which is what non-Law students do to qualify as solicitors in the UK)- and these are people who aren't thinking of doing an extra 3 years of law! The Law course is a very very heavy work load (even by Oxford standards, and honestly, it is hard to convey just how intense it is), and very theoretical.

If actual law courses is what you want to take 24/7, great, but be aware that over the three years you have exactly 2 courses that you get to choose (from a list, and all are law courses), plus your thesis topic (that you write over the summer between second and third year, so not much of a summer break). Your courses will be:

Terms 1 and 2: A Roman Introduction to Private law; Constitutional Law; Criminal Law; Legal Research and Mooting Skills Programme (Stage 1)

Terms 3-9: Administrative Law; Contract Law; European Union Law; Jurisprudence; Land Law;
Legal Research and Mooting Skills Programme (Stage 2); Tort Law; Trusts Law

You sit two sets of official exams (there are 'collections' each term, which are mock exams, and are important within the course, but don't show up on your official records): Mods at the end of the 2nd term, and Finals at the end of the 9th term. Finals are cumulative, and are the only thing (plus the thesis) that determine your final degree.

And after that you are planning to go do 3 more years of Law school in the US.

I do know one or two people who have such an appetite for reading and studying law that they would love nothing better than 6 years of law classes, so maybe you are one of them. And I do know people who have done Oxford law and then an LLM (there is one at Harvard right now).

But: you could also apply to read something else at Oxford (PPE is a usual suspect, or HisPol or any of the essay-based courses, which will hone your reading and writing chops in a way you won't believe), then apply to US Law school. Lawyers at Oxford work a LOT and you would find it harder to do a lot of the stuff that makes Oxford Oxford than you would in another course.

btw, more than half of accepted students to the top US law schools (I think Harvard was about 60% this year) are more than a year out from undergrad. Is your plan to go straight through?

If actual law courses is what you want to take 24/7, great, but be aware that over the three years you have exactly 2 courses that you get to choose (from a list, and all are law courses), plus your thesis topic (that you write over the summer between second and third year, so not much of a summer break). Your courses will be:

Terms 1 and 2: A Roman Introduction to Private law; Constitutional Law; Criminal Law; Legal Research and Mooting Skills Programme (Stage 1)

Terms 3-9: Administrative Law; Contract Law; European Union Law; Jurisprudence; Land Law;
Legal Research and Mooting Skills Programme (Stage 2); Tort Law; Trusts Law

Wow, thank you so much! This information is very helpful. I guess ideally I would rather do PPE, although if I were to get an offer it would probably be conditional, given that my school only offers AP Gov/Pol to seniors. What sort of turns me off is that PPE especially has the reputation of having one of the lowest success rates and most oversubscribed out of all the courses, although Law is quite down there as well. I say that it has a reputation as such, but from the statistics from 2013 that I have found on this link:
https://www.ox.ac.uk/media/global/wwwoxacuk/localsites/gazette/documents/statisticalinformation/admissionsstatistics/Admissions_Statistics_2013.pdf

the success rates of PPE and HisPol are both around 14% (according to the table on page 15, although there is another table on page 7 that gives vastly different numbers, not sure why there is such a discrepancy). 14% doesn't strike me as extremely low, although it is not among the highest, there are subjects with harsher stats. Could you maybe throw some light on this? I know that I am perhaps reading too much into statistics, but I think it's an important point for me to consider.

I have got all of the academic requirements and then some, besides the SATs which I haven't taken yet, but I don't have extra curricular experience directly related to PPE or HisPol, which i think is a big weakness.

Also, you didn't mention the subject History and English, is there a particular reason why? Is that subject even harder/not desirable? The reason I bring this up is because I do have some English related accolades (works published in magazines and anthologies, intern blogger etc.)
As a final note, are you studying as an American at Oxford, and if so, what subject are you studying/how do you like it? Thank you!

I have got all of the academic requirements and then some

Just to clarify, LRMSP isn't a full scale course. As far as I can remember, it's pretty much just a "tick box" exercise.

Also, the thesis is only with respect to the Jurisprudence course - it counts for 50% of the Jurisprudence grade, and is actually very short (something like 5000 words I think). It isn't a full scale thesis, and doesn't actually require a lot of time to complete (although the timing of it was certainly very annoying).

I'm going to provide the contrary view here - I spent 3 years doing the BA in Jurisprudence, 1 year doing the Oxford BCL, and am now on my 5th year of law school (basically doing something equivalent to the Legal Practice Course). I wouldn't say I have a huge passion for the law (unlike some people I know, who are thrilled to talk about the law all day long and happily spend their free time reading outside the syllabus), but I continue to find what I'm studying interesting (most of the time). It really just depends on your personal interest.



I don't think learning British law would be a detriment even if one wants to practice in the US eventually- in fact, it might possibly be useful in practice, and there's also the possibility of becoming dual-qualified. There's also a reasonable amount of overlap, and US law school would probably be much easier after having done 3 years of law already (or so my friend says - his brother did the BA at Oxford followed by a JD in the US).

I don't think you should try to "game" the Oxford system by picking a subject based solely (or primarily) on the % admitted.

First, you will be studying this specific subject very intensely for three years, and if you can't bring yourself to care for the subject, motivation will be a problem.

Second, statistics tells you nothing about the quality of people applying. In any case, based on the latest statistics, PPE and Law rank equally in competitiveness (15%). I'm also not sure why you don't see 14% as not very "low". If you refer to http://public.tableau.com/views/UoO_UG_Admissons/Courses?%3AshowVizHome=no#2, for large courses, 14% is clearly on the low end for all courses. If you're thinking that 14% is not particularly low as compared to say Harvard or Stanford, there might multiple reasons for that, such as the fact that under UCAS, one can only apply to a maximum of 5 choices, people cannot apply to Oxford and Cambridge in the same cycle, lack of financial aid for international students etc.

Finally, the admissions procedures are designed to pick people based on their aptitude for the specific subject. I was admitted for Law, but I don't think I would have been admitted for something that is less competitive on paper like Classics simply because that isn't my forte at all. Don't forget that depending on which subject you pick, you might be required to take an aptitude test (eg LNAT, TSA, HAT) that is designed specifically to test aptitude.

If you think you'd love to do PPE/ HisPol/ HisEng and would be good at it, go ahead and apply for them. Don't feel dissuaded by the statistics.

PPE & HisPol are usual suspects, but as I said, any essay-based course will set you up well for law school. The important thing is to genuinely *like* the subject, b/c 1) it actually helps you to get in (b/c if you actually like it you have probably read things/done things in the subject area, and the tutors want you to like their subject) and 2) you do a LOT of it and if you aren't that interested it's a long, painful 3 years. If English is your actual interest, and you have cred in the area, why not go for English? The course descriptions on the Oxford website are really thorough, so read them carefully and pick the one that is truly the one you would like to spend time wallowing in. PPE is the course most American's apply to, so it is particularly competitive (and the tutors have a lot of people to compare you to). On the other hand I only know of 1 American HisPol.

Conditional offers are the norm for UK students but they are a pain if you are the only senior taking APs that really really matter, and have to wait until July to know if you made your offer- BUT it CAN be done!

Don't be fooled by the acceptance rates- 14% compared to HYPSM at 5-7% looks fantastic- but remember that the numbers are skewed. The vast majority of people who apply to Oxford are qualified candidates: the schools strongly discourage students who aren't predicted the necessary marks, plus you can only apply to Oxford OR Cambridge, and you can only apply to 5 courses total. So there are very few chancers.



Can you be specific?

Oxford is a fantastic experience- extremely intense work, but amazing people, social life, opportunities. Really really different experience than the US.