Anglo-American Special Relationship

It seems just about every political commentator is predicting the end of the special relationship just because the UK Parliament has voted not to pursue a military option in Syria. Has everyone forgotten about Suez and that the UK stayed out of the Vietnam War and did not "pay the blood price". Yes the Americans were pissed off with us but the special relationship endured. I think everyone is making far too much of this.

And as for France being America's oldest ally I would just like to state the following:

Go on a freedom trail tour around Boston and you will not hear the tiniest mention from the Americans of the (decisive) help they received from France during the "revolutionary war". Selective memory or what?

Reply 1

Kiss

2

I don't care if our 'special relationship' ends. The sooner we stop kissing America's ass the better.

Reply 2

Bill_Gates

21

If you have to constantly attack other countries in order to keep a special relationship when the population is not entirely behind it then sod the special relationship. Although i do feel Syria (Assad) should pay for what he has done.

Reply 3

Studentus-anonymous

12

British-American relations are a bit more complex and substantial than needing to follow America into every conflict it's flawed industrial base requires.

Saying no to a few wars isn't going to ruin anything but America's sense of freedom in galloping across the globe to kill some brown/poor people for the sake of Lockheed-Martin's quarterly reports.

Reply 4

Thomas2

OP

16

Original post by Studentus-anonymous

British-American relations are a bit more complex and substantial than needing to follow America into every conflict it's flawed industrial base requires.

Saying no to a few wars isn't going to ruin anything but America's sense of freedom in galloping across the globe to kill some brown/poor people for the sake of Lockheed-Martin's quarterly reports.

I think that is a little harsh...

Reply 5

MatureStudent36

5

Original post by Thomas2

It seems just about every political commentator is predicting the end of the special relationship just because the UK Parliament has voted not to pursue a military option in Syria. Has everyone forgotten about Suez and that the UK stayed out of the Vietnam War and did not "pay the blood price". Yes the Americans were pissed off with us but the special relationship endured. I think everyone is making far too much of this.

And as for France being America's oldest ally I would just like to state the following:

Go on a freedom trail tour around Boston and you will not hear the tiniest mention from the Americans of the (decisive) help they received from France during the "revolutionary war". Selective memory or what?

I think you're right. Sadly this is the by product of 24 hour news media and a general lack of understanding how closely aligned the US and UK are both economically, culturally, politically and militarily.

I'm also amazed with how much Anti US sentiment there is. Normally driven by people who have had little contact with Americans. Yes, they can be a bit loud an brash, but every American I've ever met would give you the shirt of their back if you needed it. A very misunderstood nation.

Reply 6

Thomas2

OP

16

Original post by MatureStudent36

I think you're right. Sadly this is the by product of 24 hour news media and a general lack of understanding how closely aligned the US and UK are both economically, culturally, politically and militarily.

I'm also amazed with how much Anti US sentiment there is. Normally driven by people who have had little contact with Americans. Yes, they can be a bit loud an brash, but every American I've ever met would give you the shirt of their back if you needed it. A very misunderstood nation.

Yes, indeed. Also, I think they tend to come across as loud and brash more to Brits. If you spend any time there it seems quite normal.

Reply 7

Fullofsurprises

20

Original post by Thomas2

It seems just about every political commentator is predicting the end of the special relationship just because the UK Parliament has voted not to pursue a military option in Syria. Has everyone forgotten about Suez and that the UK stayed out of the Vietnam War and did not "pay the blood price". Yes the Americans were pissed off with us but the special relationship endured. I think everyone is making far too much of this.

And as for France being America's oldest ally I would just like to state the following:

Go on a freedom trail tour around Boston and you will not hear the tiniest mention from the Americans of the (decisive) help they received from France during the "revolutionary war". Selective memory or what?

All true, but there's also an element of hype on the American side - we aren't the only country they claim to have a Special Relationship with, although politicians and establishment figures in Washington sometimes talk about THE special relationship as opposed to just A special relationship!

It was always interesting watching the West Wing series on TV, that show contained a lot of the 'Washington insider' viewpoint. In the programme, 'the Prime Minister', used in that way, generally referred to the PM of Israel, not the UK.

We clearly do have a deep relationship with the US, but it has become increasingly clear that it is cynically manipulated by American governments, we are a useful cover for military operations and can be summoned when needed. Particularly infuriating is the lack of genuine bilateralism in things like extradition law and also the way US courts, government officials and even tourists see the UK as essentially a sort of offshore US property. This was underlined by the recent revelations that GCHQ and other parts of the UK security apparatus are directly funded from Washington and that they expect good returns for their money. That's why GCHQ and MI5 worked so hard to tap all of our internet traffic and send it direct to the US, where it can be read by almost a million US security personnel, many working in corrupt corporations who undoubtedly will be using it for commercial gain.

Reply 8

Studentus-anonymous

12

Original post by Thomas2

I think that is a little harsh...

And unfortunately fairly accurate. :/

Original post by Fullofsurprises

We clearly do have a deep relationship with the US, but it has become increasingly clear that it is cynically manipulated by American governments, we are a useful cover for military operations and can be summoned when needed. Particularly infuriating is the lack of genuine bilateralism in things like extradition law and also the way US courts, government officials and even tourists see the UK as essentially a sort of offshore US property. This was underlined by the recent revelations that GCHQ and other parts of the UK security apparatus are directly funded from Washington and that they expect good returns for their money. That's why GCHQ and MI5 worked so hard to tap all of our internet traffic and send it direct to the US, where it can be read by almost a million US security personnel, many working in corrupt corporations who undoubtedly will be using it for commercial gain.

This.

Our relationship is very bottom up, there's a lot of cross-cultural and personal interaction between brits and Americans, and on that level we are as close as can be expected with an ocean between us.

HOWEVER politics is politics and diplomacy is diplomacy and the American government ultimately will treat us as countries have always treated each other: As useful resources in global diplomatic and strategic jockeying. America comes first in the American governments eyes (and that is not innately wrong in principle).

That self interest is what drives America to seek out these enemies and conflicts, it's what drives America to seek British cooperation and support, but also to get as much imbalance in relations in their favour as they can.

The British media is obviously going to play up to this because it's attention grabbing but also there are elements that want war because hey, it'll create more news.

For me personally I'm not going to lose any sleep over Britain staying out of a war that frankly for us is morally and practically wasteful and wrong. America will do what America wants to do, fine. I think it's time the UK remembers it is in fact it's own sovereign country with it's own interests and it's not the end of the world if they don't always align with an allies.

NATO won't collapse because we aren't bombing another Arab country. Life goes on people.

Reply 9

WeeGuy

13

personally i believe the only time we had a special relationship was between Thatcher and Reagan.

this doesnt mean that we are not allies.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 10

OurSeaBee

1

There is nothing we can usefully do in Syria any more. An attack on the government is a de facto provision of support for the Islamists who have hijacked the revolution. If we attack the rebels for any reason, we are support a despot. Everybody dithered, and now it is too late.

Reply 11

WeeGuy

13

and the news saying 'is this the end of our special relationship?' is annoying if all it took to end our SR was to not go into a war with them then it wasnt special in the first place.

Reply 12

jco19

13

I don't think it has damaged the special relationship. Sure, it probably ticked off some people in DC, but that's about it. Beyond that the special relationship is still very much there, and in the eyes of most Americans, I think parliament's decision to not go to war has increased their respect for Britain. The overwhelming majority of Americans are just as opposed to this war as Brits are, and for the first time I am seeing Americans question the motives and the implications of going to war with a country that poses no threat to them. Ok, so it took Vietnam, the Gulf war, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, but it looks like Americans are finally war fatigued and highly skeptical of their government's motives in starting another war.

Furthermore, what does it say about the state of American politics when it is in fact the British parliament that essentially spurred Obama's decision to let congress vote on going to war with Syria. That's what I've been reading on a lot of American forums and political blogs. I was watching the senate hearing yesterday and there were several American senators who brought up the British vote, asking Kerry if Obama would respect a no vote just as Cameron did. So while the British media may worry about what the top echelons of DC think, the truth is that most Americans agree with the move and it has increased their respect for Britain.

Reply 13

rakusmaximus

10

As Ken Connor puts it:
“The ‘Special Relationship’ is both a recent invention and in a large part a convenient fiction to disguise Britain’s increasing military dependence on the United States.”

Reply 14

jumpingjesusholycow

18

Yeah.. I'm going to be celebrating as soon as the so called "special relationship" ends. Realistically the phrase now means little more than the British delusion that the US somehow 'needs' Britain but hey, we've been spied on, lied to and manipulated. It's about time we puff up our chests, lead full sail into the EU and let the United States do as it pleases.

Reply 15

Swanbow

19

It is all spin from the newspapers and political commentators who want to seem relevant (Mark Mardell in particular). The United States is probably pretty annoyed that Britain voted no to military action in Syria seeing as it was them and the French who had been badgering the Americans for support for such action since 2011. However I doubt the United States is willing to end the special relationship, one that is mutually beneficial in terms of intelligence, diplomacy, trade, national security, ect. over refusal to take military action (which would amount to launching a few cruise missiles) over Syria. Especially seeing as the United States already has full capacity to act by itself.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 16

jco19

13

Original post by jumpingjesusholycow

It's about time we puff up our chests, lead full sail into the EU and let the United States do as it pleases.

"Hey America, we're ceding our sovereignty and joining Greece and Portugal in economic misery ... HAH! Take that." :rolleyes:

Reply 17

jumpingjesusholycow

18

Original post by jco19

"Hey America, we're ceding our sovereignty and joining Greece and Portugal in economic misery ... HAH! Take that." :rolleyes:

Yes, because nothing screams "sovereignty" like having the US spy on the private political discussions of European nations. As for Greece and Portugal, they are liability that needs to be dealt with regardless of our relationship with the United States. Having a relationship so parasitic as ours is to the US has little or nothing to do with how strong we can be within our own existing political union.

Reply 18

nomadinthecity92

Lol the US is like a big playground bully.

Reply 19

Fullofsurprises

20

Original post by nomadinthecity92

Lol the US is like a big playground bully.

They're more like a particularly poor School Head Teacher - some days they are kind of almost allright, other days they are arrogant, self-righteous, bad tempered, indifferent to contrary information and obviously lacking in good judgment whilst at the same time completely confident in their own natural right to be in charge. They also retain 20% of the school tuck money and use it to buy their own handmade chocolates from a distant town and they are heavily in debt to the local Wonga shop and they only meet the payments by printing some fake notes in the Physics lab.

Anglo-American Special Relationship

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