The Burqa debate. A veiled woman's views.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/i-wear-the-niqab-let-me-speak-on-my-own-behalf-8824243.html
A very interesting and perhaps foreign viewpoint for those who really haven't listened to what veiled women themselves have to say.
A very interesting and perhaps foreign viewpoint for those who really haven't listened to what veiled women themselves have to say.
Scroll to see replies
Original post by Seb.
It still should be forbidden in places such as airports, shops etc.
At airports, women do take their veils off for security reasons. Banks and shops can turn down women who wear the burqa for security reasons but clearly they do not have a problem as they don't.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Willbean
Muslims. You just can't win.
But at the same time, we are a tolerant country, unlike her own. So therefore the niqab should be allowed to wear freely, as much as I hate to support it.
Why can't we be like France.
But at the same time, we are a tolerant country, unlike her own. So therefore the niqab should be allowed to wear freely, as much as I hate to support it.
Why can't we be like France.
Read what she says. She acknowledges that Saudi mandates the burqa and France bans it. She respects the freedom that the UK has but insists that any political debate should hear what veiled women have to say too!
Okay. So an oppressed person says they're not oppressed. Would you believe a woman who exhibits all the signs of being a victim of domestic violence when she claims she has a perfect relationship? No, because the signs of oppression are all there. Just like the burqa - the ultimate sign of a victim blaming, oppressive culture.
Original post by ChocoCoatedLemons
Okay. So an oppressed person says they're not oppressed. Would you believe a woman who exhibits all the signs of being a victim of domestic violence when she claims she has a perfect relationship? No, because the signs of oppression are all there. Just like the burqa - the ultimate sign of a victim blaming, oppressive culture.
Pretty much.
Original post by Lady Comstock
With respect, an oppressed person can still be oppressed even if they don't think they are being oppressed.
Also, I can't stand it when people declare that there are more important things to debate. People did this with the same-sex marriage issue. Debating and caring about x does not meant you cannot also debate and care about y.
Also, I can't stand it when people declare that there are more important things to debate. People did this with the same-sex marriage issue. Debating and caring about x does not meant you cannot also debate and care about y.
She clearly doesn't sound oppressed. It should be noted that some veiled women choose to wear the burqa for the exact reason that they feel that women who show a lot of their skin are pulled into a sexually oppressive world. I think this really illustrates the importance for veiled women to have their views recognised.
Original post by ChocoCoatedLemons
Okay. So an oppressed person says they're not oppressed. Would you believe a woman who exhibits all the signs of being a victim of domestic violence when she claims she has a perfect relationship? No, because the signs of oppression are all there. Just like the burqa - the ultimate sign of a victim blaming, oppressive culture.
Sometimes people can deny they are being oppressed. Do you honestly feel that she's hiding her oppression. She seems like an intelligent woman who is interested in the political arena and wants to have her say.
Original post by Person1001
Sometimes people can deny they are being oppressed. Do you honestly feel that she's hiding her oppression. She seems like an intelligent woman who is interested in the political arena and wants to have her say.
I feel like she's a woman who is trying to defend her religion. That's all.
Original post by Seb.
Pretty much.
Thanks
What?!? Now women have to conform to society's definition of oppression! Poppycock.
Original post by Willbean
Why can't we be like France.
Why can't we be like France.
And this is why Britain is now a 2nd rate power incapable of projecting its identity in any sense of the word.
Original post by ChocoCoatedLemons
Okay. So an oppressed person says they're not oppressed. Would you believe a woman who exhibits all the signs of being a victim of domestic violence when she claims she has a perfect relationship? No, because the signs of oppression are all there. Just like the burqa - the ultimate sign of a victim blaming, oppressive culture.
And how would you know that they are "oppressed"?
Who was it that told you that persons who wear the Niqaab are "oppressed"?
Original post by Willbean
I would love to wear the cross around my neck, carry a bible and walk through Pakistan. I wonder what could happen. Islam is not tolerant of anyone else but expect themselves to be tolerated.
Islam was, is, and will be a joke.
Islam was, is, and will be a joke.
Islam respects the right for others to practice their religion and to identify themselves proudly with a religion (by wearing a cross etc.)
Many Muslims in this country feel privileged to live in the UK because of the freedom and our laws and you re right it is not fair that many 'muslim' countries do not offer the right freedom to people of different beliefs. Many muslims will prefer to stay in the UK over some other muslim countries because they believe in the values and the rights of UK democracy.
It's a piece of clothing. Get over it. You've got women being paid to take their clothes off and in France you have to pay in order to wear the burqa. The world is screwed up in too many ways and the fact that banning the burqa is even in discussion is wrong on so many levels. It's a freedom of choice, and it's also a religious act. For God's sake, what harm does it do to you to see a woman covered up?
Of course they should have a say.
However, the idea of the facial veil being oppressive runs deeper than "let's free the Muslim women because they can't free themselves". It is a barrier between the most crucial parts of human interaction - facial expression. It represents the self-exclusion of a community, and quite frankly it's threatening. Threatening to our culture, to years of hard won freedom and equality, and on a personal level, when you can't see the person you're talking to.
Before people shout 'religious intolerance', I have no objection to people performing their own religious traditions in private, or even in the street. I have nothing against Muslims as people. I have no objection to a veil that covers everything except the face. However, I do not believe in being 'tolerant of the intolerant', as it were. There has to be a line drawn, and I would draw that line at hiding your face in court, at schools, and in other public institutions.
I fully recognise that banning the Burqa outright may drive some women into seclusion, so I don't think that practically it's necessarily the best solution. However, in principle I am all for debate, of which Muslim women should obviously be a large part, but think that this has wider implications than perhaps suggested in the article.
However, the idea of the facial veil being oppressive runs deeper than "let's free the Muslim women because they can't free themselves". It is a barrier between the most crucial parts of human interaction - facial expression. It represents the self-exclusion of a community, and quite frankly it's threatening. Threatening to our culture, to years of hard won freedom and equality, and on a personal level, when you can't see the person you're talking to.
Before people shout 'religious intolerance', I have no objection to people performing their own religious traditions in private, or even in the street. I have nothing against Muslims as people. I have no objection to a veil that covers everything except the face. However, I do not believe in being 'tolerant of the intolerant', as it were. There has to be a line drawn, and I would draw that line at hiding your face in court, at schools, and in other public institutions.
I fully recognise that banning the Burqa outright may drive some women into seclusion, so I don't think that practically it's necessarily the best solution. However, in principle I am all for debate, of which Muslim women should obviously be a large part, but think that this has wider implications than perhaps suggested in the article.
(edited 10 years ago)
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