Who was better in their prime? Xavi or Pirlo?
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Original post by Ultimate1
The only sad part about Xavi is that he only stabilised and reached he full peak pretty late at about 28/29.
He could have been the gratest midfielder of all time had he reached his full potential 4/5 years earlier.
He could have been the gratest midfielder of all time had he reached his full potential 4/5 years earlier.
Yes... 'Stabilised'...
Original post by yaboy
After that performance Pirlo had against England in the Euros
I just thought
plus I think he has better ball control than Xavi
Xavi is 100% passing whereas Pirlo is 90% and still has some great abilities on the balls.
And DAT HAIR
I just thought
plus I think he has better ball control than Xavi
Xavi is 100% passing whereas Pirlo is 90% and still has some great abilities on the balls.
And DAT HAIR
Don't forget the BEARD and the awesome, cool penalty chips.
I can't remember him being this "cool" all those years ago when he had no stubble and was working his way up the ladder although as said before, sometimes the talented players who control the game don't get the bright lights on them.
Original post by CB91
Clocked when he kept mentioning attacking roles getting the plaudits as justification for Xavi's legacy. Guy's an idiot. Don't bother.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Wilfred Little
Clocked when he kept mentioning attacking roles getting the plaudits as justification for Xavi's legacy. Guy's an idiot. Don't bother.
Are you this dense?
You were saying that Xavi was always rated higher than Pirlo. I never saw or heard of Xavi being rated much higher than Pirlo during Pirlo's first peak (2004-2007). And I proved it by showing you the facts of the matter (Pirlo in World XI in 2006 & 5th in Ballon D'or in 2007). But giving you the benefit of the doubt (in case you heard many commentators raving about Xavi between 2003-2007), I explained why that might have been the case (attacking/non defensive players usually get the plaudits over defensive ones, especially defensive midfielders).
Nowhere did I say that Xavi having a free role as a CM (in his prime) with the licence to attack and hence getting plaudits was the only justification for his legacy. If that was the case, then I wouldn't think of Messi as the greatest of all time when he retires. So stop twisting my words just because you got your ass handed to ya in our debate.
I brought up Xavi having a free role (from 2008 onwards) to explain why you were overrating Xavi. Anyone who had good technical skills and an intelligent football brain could have played Xavi's free role, after a bit of experience. I also brought it up to emphasize (again) that Xavi and Pirlo played in different roles. Just because Xavi got to display his skills in a more free attacking role doesn't mean that Pirlo wasn't world class in his defensive position. Pirlo displayed many world class abilities in his defensive position and is one of the greatest DLPs of all time (hence making him one of the greatest midfielders of all time). And therefore, the gap between Xavi and Pirlo isn't as big as you were making out.
Fair enough if you thought Xavi was better than Pirlo. But to dismiss Pirlo as not being world class in his prime at Milan during which time he inspired Italy to win the World Cup and played a key role in Milan's Champions League success is just stupid. Even more stupid is to deny Pirlo's legendary status as one of the best midfielders of all time (since he is one of the best DLPs of all time) considering his entire career so far.
Yet again, you haven't answered my question. For the umpteenth time, name better DLPs than Pirlo in the history of the game. More specifically, name me better DLPs than Pirlo in the last 3 decades. Answer my question or STFU, you retard.
Original post by Wilfred Little
Guy's an idiot. Don't bother.
And this is coming from the guy that said Xavi was always rated higher than Pirlo and Pirlo was never world class at Milan, despite Pirlo being in the World XI and coming 5th in the Ballon D'or. What a numpty. Stop talking crap and GTFO this thread. Dumbass.
(edited 10 years ago)
Pirlo was not world class at Milan, Xavi was always rated higher, that much is obvious.
Original post by Wilfred Little
Pirlo was not world class at Milan, Xavi was always rated higher, that much is obvious.
So:
-World XI 2006
-IFFFHS World's Best Playmaker: 2006 (3rd place) & 2007 (2nd place)
-Ballon D'or: 2006 (9th place) & 2007 (5th place)
-Fifa World Player of the Year: 2007 (7th place)
was not world class from Pirlo?
(edited 10 years ago)
7th and 5th best? Not even in the world just in his own position? Really?
I'm sure I could dig up a list of other players who've made these FIFA World 11's who weren't world class. Gerard Piqué has been in it for the last three years
.
I'm sure I could dig up a list of other players who've made these FIFA World 11's who weren't world class. Gerard Piqué has been in it for the last three years
.Original post by Wilfred Little
Erm, it's the Ballon D'or and World Player of the Year? You know...Pirlo was competing with players from other positions like Kaka, Henry etc?
Original post by Omegalpha
Erm, it's the Ballon D'or and World Player of the Year? You know...Pirlo was competing with players from other positions like Kaka, Henry etc?
You've edited your post. But I'll reply to that anyway. No, finishing that high in a Ballon d'Or one year doesn't make you world class. Cannavaro actually won it in 2006, because FIFA tend to place heavy emphasis on 7 particular games every 4 years out of the 70+ that are played within an international and club season.
Original post by Wilfred Little
.
Btw, you do know that I have always suspected you were trolling?
Nonetheless, stop avoiding the question. Tell me better DLPs than Pirlo in the history of the game.
Original post by Omegalpha
Btw, you do know that I have always suspected you were trolling?
Nonetheless, stop avoiding the question. Tell me better DLPs than Pirlo in the history of the game.
Nonetheless, stop avoiding the question. Tell me better DLPs than Pirlo in the history of the game.
Xabi Alonso. Don't need another. I'd put Scholes and Veron above him too. Consistently great their entire careers, not just for one year and after scoring e chipped penalty.
#js
Original post by Wilfred Little
You've edited your post. But I'll reply to that anyway. No, finishing that high in a Ballon d'Or one year doesn't make you world class. Cannavaro actually won it in 2006, because FIFA tend to place heavy emphasis on 7 particular games every 4 years out of the 70+ that are played within an international and club season.
But:
-IFFFHS World's Best Playmaker: 2006 (3rd place) & 2007 (2nd place)
-Ballon D'or: 2007 (5th place)
?
And the World Cup is the biggest football competition in the world, where you compete against some of the best countries in the world.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Omegalpha
World Cup is the biggest football competition in the world, where you compete against some of the best countries in the world.
Biggest =/= best, the only good teams they played were Germany and France. They also played the titans of Ukraine, USA, Australia, Ghana & Czech Republic
, all of whom would lose by at least 4 goals against the quality of sides you'd come up against in the knockouts of the CL.Even the Euros are harder to win than the World Cup.
#js
All in all I think I'd have to go with Xavi, I think he probably edges in terms of goal threat and the ability to find space. Although Pirlo is the better free kick taker.
I think both have been recognised in their latter years as with Scholes as the DLP role has kind of garnered more attention and the plaudits look behind the AM's to see who keeps things ticking over, and even by managers, ****ing Roy Hogson is just cottoning on the fact Carrick might actually be of use. But Xavi was performing at that level earlier than Pirlo imo, perhaps that is because of the team he played at and Barca being a bit ahead of the curve with the balance of the midfield three.
My vison of Xavi is clouded anyway because I'm a big Iniesta fan and I think he gets sidelined by the Xavi hype sometimes.
Xavi also has the second most simple yes massively trick I've ever seem, just behind Valencia's "Am I coming inside? Nope byline!!!" That little 360 he does where he just turns round and then keeps going, I just cannot figure why it works so damn well.
I think both have been recognised in their latter years as with Scholes as the DLP role has kind of garnered more attention and the plaudits look behind the AM's to see who keeps things ticking over, and even by managers, ****ing Roy Hogson is just cottoning on the fact Carrick might actually be of use. But Xavi was performing at that level earlier than Pirlo imo, perhaps that is because of the team he played at and Barca being a bit ahead of the curve with the balance of the midfield three.
My vison of Xavi is clouded anyway because I'm a big Iniesta fan and I think he gets sidelined by the Xavi hype sometimes.
Xavi also has the second most simple yes massively trick I've ever seem, just behind Valencia's "Am I coming inside? Nope byline!!!" That little 360 he does where he just turns round and then keeps going, I just cannot figure why it works so damn well.
xavi, he had a longer 'peak'. irlos peak was very late in his career. a better question whose peak was better - zidane or figo
Sorry for the long post.
Of course, he spent a lot of time in the centre pulling the strings. But I thought everyone knew that. Hence why I choose to mention the other stuff that Xavi did, which proves that he had a free role as a CM.
I'm not. I watched Barca very often since the Ronaldinho days and watched them even more during Pep's time as their coach. I know perfectly well what I'm talking about and I'll prove it.
Firstly, if you watched Barca a lot as you insinuated, you should know that in Pep's Barca, players often interchanged positions during games? Most ordinary teams have a LCM and a RCM, who generally stay fixed in their positions during games. At Barca, the LCM and RCM (Iniesta and Xavi) often exchanged positions on the pitch under Pep. Of course, they still played their different roles. But their positions changed. And that's what I'm talking about. The free role to roam about the pitch to fulfill your main tactical duties.
Apart from the DM, all the other midfielders and forwards had attacking roles. Xavi had the least out of them as his main responsibility was to control the game and pull the strings. But he had the freedom to roam about the pitch into good spaces to perform this task and also had the freedom to bomb forward and score/assist goals.
I mean, come on. You should know this stuff already. Xavi's game is all about finding good spaces and exploiting it. He can't fulfill this role if he's playing in a limited position. He must have had a free role as a CM to perform his tactical duties. And I'll prove it. Look at the attachments pls.
Attachment #1 (Xavi). Iniesta passing to Xavi. Xavi is in a wide position. Proving my claim that he has the freedom/free role to roam into spaces to help spread play/stretch the pitch.
#2 (Xavi 2 & 22). Pedro passing to Xavi. Again, Xavi is in a wide position. Proving my claim that he has a free role.
#3. Xavi on the left and Iniesta on the right. Proving my claim that Barca players often interchange positions.
#4. Look how advanced Xavi is up the pitch.
#5. Look how advanced Xavi is up the pitch again.
#6 (Xavi 6 & 66). Look how advanced Xavi is up the pitch AGAIN!.
#7 (Xavi 7 & 77). Look how advanced Xavi is up the pitch and from there he scores a goal.
All of this in one game. And he did it even more times in that single game but I don't have the time to show you every instance of his free role. But he did this in most, if not all matches he played under Pep and for Spain post 2008.
Who's the idiot now, Donkey Wilfred? It's sad that I had to waste some minutes of my life that I'll never get back just to prove something that anyone who claims to watch Barca often should know already. Xavi had a free role as a CM in his prime. Yes, he spent a lot of time in central midfield, pulling the strings. But he also spent a lot of time outside of central midfield during games. And he often spent time bombing forwards into advanced positions to score and assist goals.
If you still don't believe Xavi had the freedom to join the attack, watch these videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybbqDkr2HgA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP3hS732w7o
Original post by CB91
He was relied on to control the centre of the pitch, recycle the ball and "pull the strings" as it were by bringing others (mainly Alves/the wingers) into play.
Of course, he spent a lot of time in the centre pulling the strings. But I thought everyone knew that. Hence why I choose to mention the other stuff that Xavi did, which proves that he had a free role as a CM.
I'm not. I watched Barca very often since the Ronaldinho days and watched them even more during Pep's time as their coach. I know perfectly well what I'm talking about and I'll prove it.
Firstly, if you watched Barca a lot as you insinuated, you should know that in Pep's Barca, players often interchanged positions during games? Most ordinary teams have a LCM and a RCM, who generally stay fixed in their positions during games. At Barca, the LCM and RCM (Iniesta and Xavi) often exchanged positions on the pitch under Pep. Of course, they still played their different roles. But their positions changed. And that's what I'm talking about. The free role to roam about the pitch to fulfill your main tactical duties.
Apart from the DM, all the other midfielders and forwards had attacking roles. Xavi had the least out of them as his main responsibility was to control the game and pull the strings. But he had the freedom to roam about the pitch into good spaces to perform this task and also had the freedom to bomb forward and score/assist goals.
I mean, come on. You should know this stuff already. Xavi's game is all about finding good spaces and exploiting it. He can't fulfill this role if he's playing in a limited position. He must have had a free role as a CM to perform his tactical duties. And I'll prove it. Look at the attachments pls.
Attachment #1 (Xavi). Iniesta passing to Xavi. Xavi is in a wide position. Proving my claim that he has the freedom/free role to roam into spaces to help spread play/stretch the pitch.
#2 (Xavi 2 & 22). Pedro passing to Xavi. Again, Xavi is in a wide position. Proving my claim that he has a free role.
#3. Xavi on the left and Iniesta on the right. Proving my claim that Barca players often interchange positions.
#4. Look how advanced Xavi is up the pitch.
#5. Look how advanced Xavi is up the pitch again.
#6 (Xavi 6 & 66). Look how advanced Xavi is up the pitch AGAIN!.
#7 (Xavi 7 & 77). Look how advanced Xavi is up the pitch and from there he scores a goal.
All of this in one game. And he did it even more times in that single game but I don't have the time to show you every instance of his free role. But he did this in most, if not all matches he played under Pep and for Spain post 2008.
Who's the idiot now, Donkey Wilfred? It's sad that I had to waste some minutes of my life that I'll never get back just to prove something that anyone who claims to watch Barca often should know already. Xavi had a free role as a CM in his prime. Yes, he spent a lot of time in central midfield, pulling the strings. But he also spent a lot of time outside of central midfield during games. And he often spent time bombing forwards into advanced positions to score and assist goals.
If you still don't believe Xavi had the freedom to join the attack, watch these videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybbqDkr2HgA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP3hS732w7o
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Wilfred Little
Biggest =/= best, the only good teams they played were Germany and France. They also played the titans of Ukraine, USA, Australia, Ghana & Czech Republic , all of whom would lose by at least 4 goals against the quality of sides you'd come up against in the knockouts of the CL. Even the Euros are harder to win than the World Cup. #js
, all of whom would lose by at least 4 goals against the quality of sides you'd come up against in the knockouts of the CL. Even the Euros are harder to win than the World Cup. #jsBut:
-Ballon D'or: 2007 (5th place)
-FIFA World Player of the Year (7th place)
?
(edited 10 years ago)
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