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I just saw passion of the christ

hildabeast

Does the movie depict Jesus carrying his own cross? A common error - the synoptics all hold it was Simon of Cyrene.

From what I saw in the trailer (although he's covered in blood by that point, so it could be anyone) it's Jesus himself. And someone else was saying something about how he shouldn't carry the whole cross himself, though that passage from Luke seems to suggest so. My knowledge of the Gospels is hazy :eek:

and even more so of Catholicism, but isn't Jesus supposed to have carried it at one point, then he falls over and Veronica gives him her handkerchief to wipe his face, which ends up with an imprint on it?

Dammit, I don't know, I'm going to have to go and see this film.

Reply 81

SasunD

10

hildabeast

But if it is claimed that the movie is entirely faithful to the Gospel accounts, a whole generation of American will believe something that is actually false :rolleyes:

I don't get that.

Reply 82

banned user 47000

bono

Meh. The average viewer probably wouldn't give a damn. :smile:

agreed

Reply 83

SasunD

10

Helenia

From what I saw in the trailer (although he's covered in blood by that point, so it could be anyone) it's Jesus himself. And someone else was saying something about how he shouldn't carry the whole cross himself, though that passage from Luke seems to suggest so. My knowledge of the Gospels is hazy :eek:

and even more so of Catholicism, but isn't Jesus supposed to have carried it at one point, then he falls over and Veronica gives him her handkerchief to wipe his face, which ends up with an imprint on it?

Dammit, I don't know, I'm going to have to go and see this film.

yeah, she gives him a cloth to wipe his face with. she takes it back and i think kisses it. she also has a cup of water with her. she outstretches her hand to give it Jesus, but it gets smacked out of her hand by a soldier, who then pushes her back, and whips jesus again. Then Jesus gets beaten up again by the soldiers and mob. Simon comes in and stops it for a while.

Reply 84

hildabeast

7

SasunD

I don't get that.

My problem with it is the movie makers claim that it directly follows the Gospel accounts of the Passion. Therefore it there's something in there which doesn't, people are going to think that it does. American film-makers have quite a trackrecord when it comes to this sort of thing.

Reply 85

TheWolf

15

agreed

gd one

Reply 86

username9816

14

TheWolf

gd one

Seems like I shall be fast approaching 7000 posts. :wink:

Godly.

Reply 87

TheWolf

15

bono

Seems like I shall be fast approaching 7000 posts. :wink:

Godly.

i love you!

Reply 88

koalapiyo

hildabeast

My problem with it is the movie makers claim that it directly follows the Gospel accounts of the Passion. Therefore it there's something in there which doesn't, people are going to think that it does. American film-makers have quite a trackrecord when it comes to this sort of thing.

it's obviously not 100% based on the bible. even gibson acknowledges that he used other sources such as Anne Emmerich's visions, recorded in "The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ." although he did use the 4 synoptics.

another thing, its totally impossible to make a film of jesus' passion (or any other historical drama for that matter) without artistic embellishment. i'm not saying that those additions were necessarily good, or right (for example, the androgynous satan). but overall, i think he did a good job.

the following article was taken from:
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/140/story_14097_1.html

'The Passion': What's Not in the Bible?
Because scripture is silent on certain details, Mel Gibson drew from extrabiblical sources to craft his 'Passion.'

By the Beliefnet Staff

The complete version of this article is available in Beliefnet's The Passion Papers.

"I wanted to be true to the Gospels," Gibson has said of his goals in creating "The Passion of the Christ." In an introduction to a book about his movie, he wrote, "Holy Scripture and accepted visions of the Passion were the only possible texts I could draw from to fashion a dramatic film."

But because scripture is silent on certain details of the Passion, several scenes in the movie aren't found in the Bible. Many of Gibson's additions are quite plausible embellishments of brief biblical mentions. Some came from other religious sources, like the visions of the mystic nuns Sister Anne Emmerich and Mary of Agreda. And a few scenes, apparently, are inventions--often artistically daring ones.

It's hard to divine a pattern from the portions that were added. Some seem to highlight the Jewishness of Jesus and his family. For example, at one point when Jesus is first being beaten, Mary awakens, as if from a nightmare. Sensing Jesus' pain, she says, in Hebrew, "Why is this night unlike any other night?" This is a famous part of the Jewish liturgy for Passover, the season during which Jesus was crucified. Other added scenes seem to make Caiaphas more villainous and Pontius Pilate more sympathetic. Still others just seem to make for a more dramatic narrative.

Below are both Bible citations and nonbiblical sources for selected movie scenes.

Jesus prays in Gethsemane
Bible references: Mt 26:36-46; Mk 14:32-42; Lk 22:39-46
In the movie but not the Bible: Satan watches as Jesus prays (Jesus' prayers are drawn from the Psalms); Satan tempts Jesus, saying "Do you really believe one man can carry this burden? ...saving their souls is too costly;" Satan sends a snake to bite Jesus; Jesus crushes the snake's head in an allusion to Genesis 3:15.

Source: Many movie details relating to Satan are drawn from Sister Anne Emmerich's visions, recorded in "The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ." In "The Dolorous Passion," Satan says to Jesus, "Takest thou even this sin upon thyself? Art thou willing to bear its penalty? Art thou prepared to satisfy for all these sins?" Emmerich also envisioned "the serpent ...This odious reptile of gigantic size" in Gethsemane.

Other considerations: "The Dolorous Passion" spends much time on Gethsemane and draws many Adam-Christ/Eve-Mary parallels. The book also refers to the serpent later in the narrative, when Jesus is near death and is entrusting Mary to John's care. "It did not appear to me in the least surprising that Jesus should call the Blessed Virgin ‘Woman, instead of ‘Mother.’ I felt that he intended to demonstrate that she was that woman spoken of in Scripture who was to crush the head of the serpent, and that then was the moment in which that promise was accomplished in the death of her Son."

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Payment to people to come to courtyard
Bible references: Matthew 26:59-60
In the movie but not the Bible: In a very brief scene, money is seen changing hands, with the implication that people are being paid to testify against Jesus. This probably refers to Matthew 26, which says "The chief priests and the entire Sanhedrin kept trying to obtain false testimony against Jesus in order to put him to death." But no money is mentioned in the gospels.

Other sources: "The Dolorous Passion" says "The High Priests now sent for those whom they knew to be the most bitterly opposed to Jesus, and desired them to assemble the witnesses ...The proud Sadducees ...whom Jesus had so often reproved before the people, were actually dying for revenge. They hastened to all the inns to seek out those persons whom they knew to be enemies of our Lord, and offered them bribes in order to secure their appearance."

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Arrest of Jesus, Malchus' ear healed
Bible references: Jn 18; Lk 22; Mt 26:52
In the movie but not the Bible: Before the guards approach, Jesus tells some of his apostles "I don't want them to see me this way," referring to other apostles; when Jesus, in chains, is being led away, he falls and dangles from a wall. As he dangles, Jesus and Judas face each other.

Mary's reaction to Jesus' suffering
In the movie but not the Bible: As Jesus is being tortured in Gethsemane, Mary awakens in her home and says, "What makes this night different from all other nights?" -- a reference to the Jewish Passover liturgy.

Other sources: "The Dolorous Passion" says that "During this agony of Jesus, I saw the Blessed Virgin also overwhelmed with sorrow and anguish of soul... I saw these interior movements of her soul towards Jesus... I beheld the spiritual communication which they had with each other." Mary of Agreda, a Spanish nun, also saw visions of Mary. Her Mystical City of God relates that Mary sensed Jesus' pain even when far away from him. However, neither nun references the Passover liturgy.

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Jesus comes before Jewish leaders at temple locale
Bible references: Mt 26:57; Mk 14:53; Lk 22:54; Jn 18:13
In the movie but not the Bible: Mary, Jesus' mother, and Mary Magdalene are depicted as standing among the soldiers. In the Gospels, they don't appear until much later in the narrative.

Other sources: "The Dolorous Passion" describes how "Mary, with Magdalen, John, and the holy women, stood in a corner of the forum, trembling and weeping." The "City of God" says Mary witnessed many pre-crucifixion events either in the flesh or in visions.

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Pontius Pilate's wife advises Pilate
Bible references: Mt 27:19
In the movie but not the Bible: The Bible references Pilate's wife only once, and not by name; she sends her husband a message about Jesus saying, "Have nothing to do with this righteous man--I have suffered much in a dream because of him." In the film, Pilate and his wife have several conversations about what he should do.

Other sources: Sister Anne Emmerich's "Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ" describes interactions between Pilate and his wife, who is depicted as a sympathetic proto-Christian character.

Mary of Agreda's "City of God" attributes more mercenary motives to Pilate's wife: "Despairing of success, the demons betook themselves to the wife of Pilate and spoke to her in dreams, representing to her that this Man was just and without guilt, that if her husband should sentence Him he would be deprived of his rank and she herself would meet with great adversity."

Reply 89

lilsunflower

7

I'm a bit of a wuss, although I really like epic kinda movies. Is the Passion of the Christ too graphic? I saw the trailer and got so freaked out by the blood. The image is still stuck in my head *boo* :frown:

Reply 90

SasunD

10

i didn't think that it was too graphic. Sure some of the images are hard to take, buts its not going to scare you to the level you will get nightmares. go and watch 'Resident Evil', or play it in fact if you want nightmares.

It has the necessary level of violence. The scene where he is whipped and then maced is also hard to swallow, but just makes the film more powerful.

Reply 91

Adhsur

OP

15

lilsunflower

I'm a bit of a wuss, although I really like epic kinda movies. Is the Passion of the Christ too graphic? I saw the trailer and got so freaked out by the blood. The image is still stuck in my head *boo* :frown:

I went to see it because of its "epicness" too...but yes it was VERY graphic. The whole film is just blood, blood, and more blood. Nothing else really.

Reply 92

username9816

14

Adhsur

I went to see it because of its "epicness" too...but yes it was VERY graphic. The whole film is just blood, blood, and more blood. Nothing else really.