US came within an inch of nuking itself

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Good point, it's hard to imagine. I mean, it's hard to imagine the whole scenario anyway - the devastation, the horror and loathing. If the public became aware that it was their own government that had dropped the H-bomb on them, I think it plausible that massive and sustained public disorder and civil disobedience would have ensued. Of course, the entire health system of the US would also have been utterly overwhelmed. One of the Big Lies perpetrated by governments at that time was they they could basically cope with nuclear war, that there would be health care, etc. In reality, they could not even have coped properly with this one bomb.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 21

Soil

Nuclear weapons shouldn't belong to anyone, or even exist in my opinion. Look how much damage the atomic bomb caused in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and yet everyone just wiped over it and we hardly acknowledge the gravity of our actions impact today, yes it was our ancestors but we should try and make an effort to prevent any future nukes going off (even if it is almost impossible in today's society to detonate nukes) just glad it was averted

Reply 22

the mezzil

Original post by Soil

Look how much damage nuclear weapons have saved Japan from. Do you even know what the alternative to nuking Japan was? Moreover, have you heard of MAD? There would of been far more bigger wars in the 20th century if it wasn't for nuclear weapons, scary and weird as that sounds. It's all good and cool to do the "hip" thing and be against nuclear weapons, but do you actually have any idea what you are saying? How much have you actually thought into it? Instead of just reading a thread of a internet forum.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 23

Soil

Original post by the mezzil

I know there were few options the west had even though most would have had a devastating impact anyway, but it just seems so impractical and unreasonable in hindsight

Reply 24

rmhumphries

Original post by Soil

I know there were few options the west had even though most would have had a devastating impact anyway, but it just seems so impractical and unreasonable in hindsight

In hindsight, based on what happened because the bombs were dropped. What if, without nuclear bombs, the war went on for another couple of years before Japan surrendered, possibly killing even more people than the nuclear bombs did - and then a decade or not later there was world war three instead of the cold war.

Even hindsight is limited, it is very hard to play 'what if'.

Reply 25

Soil

Original post by rmhumphries

There is always a solution to subjugation and always a choice, our blind ancestors and even present day leaders couldn't find a way to put their differences aside and work for the harmony of the people. They were and ARE smiling tyrants

Reply 26

rmhumphries

Original post by Soil

So you think that we should always compromise when asked to? When Hitler invaded Poland, we should have offered him half of it if he didn't attack anyone else?

The only way peace can be gained and kept without warfare is if both sides are willing to sort things out reasonably. If one side keeps on attacking, and you give in each time, eventually that side will rule you.

Reply 27

Soil

Hitler was just another madman by the time he went marching on Poland, any open-minded person who hasn't been brainwashed by propaganda will tell you he could have made a thriving success of this world before he went off ranting about an Arian race

but war shouldn't be used as a political catalyst to advantage or favour a corrupt institute or body. War was and is a mistake we must learn from, the morally correct should lead the world and those elected by right-thinking people should be in power of the world.

Hitler should have never been allowed to gain that much influence in the first place, a MISTAKE the world and those responsible for his power must regret and learn from.

Reply 28

rmhumphries

Original post by Soil

While it may have been the case that if Hitler hadn't of gained power, then the war wouldn't of happened - how could an outsider have stopped Hitler gaining power? The only people responsible for Hitler gaining power were those who were taken in by his charisma and how he said he would make Germany better. I doubt that the majority of people who voted for him / his party realised that he was then going to try to take over the world - how could they have known?

Going back to the UK and other allied powers could do, once you have got to the point where Hitler invaded Poland, was there any other alternative but war?

Reply 29

Drewski

So 3 bits failed. The 4th worked and nothing happened bar a bit of a impact crater.

Several stages of the Apollo 11 mission failed too, but you don't/didn't hear Armstrong, Aldrin or Collins complain about it.

Anyone who thinks anything designed by humans is foolproof hasn't met enough humans.

Reply 30

John Stuart Mill

Original post by the mezzil

this post is riddled with logical fallacies as it makes assumptions that the individual knows what would have happened had nuclear weapons not been dropped on Japan, obviously we can try to infer but no it's not inevitible and to say that there would have been X and X is just scaremongering no matter how probable it is.

Reply 31

John Stuart Mill

Original post by Drewski

Terrible analogy millions of lives were not at risk in said situations.

Reply 32

lucas13

its over 50 years ago. as long as they dont transfer it around it shouldnt be a problem. you cant just not have them though else north korea/ china will end up ruling the world.

Reply 33

geetar

I think an 'uh oh spaghetti-os!' is appropriate for this.

Reply 34

username948920

I don't know what is more incompetent - the fact that the situation had even arisen or the fact that the dynamo switch didn't work.

Reply 35

John Stuart Mill

Original post by lucas13

its over 50 years ago. as long as they dont transfer it around it shouldnt be a problem. you cant just not have them though else north korea/ china will end up ruling the world.

It would probably be economic suicide for China, their biggest trading partners are the USA and not only would it potentially stop all form of trade with the US but also many parts of Europe which would probably have major repercussions for very little gain (even if they did nuke they wouldn't be able to land in America to take resources for decades... think of all the wasted resources).

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 36

privat

Original post by Fullofsurprises

This story is pretty chilling.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/20/usaf-atomic-bomb-north-carolina-1961

Apparently US nuclear bombers nearly detonated an H-Bomb (of about 4 Megatons - a Type 39 H Bomb) over Goldsboro, North Carolina, in 1961, potentially killing outright at least half a million people and depositing lethal radiation over about 5-10 million.

Of the four bomb safety systems that were supposed to work when a bomb was accidentally dropped, three failed and only a small switch prevented the disaster.

Striking evidence that nuclear weapons have not been as safe in the hands of the west as has often been claimed in justification for retaining them.

Agreed.
It always makes me smile how politicians etc refer to weapons as safe/not safe. How can a weapon be safe haha.

Reply 37

John Stuart Mill

Original post by privat

Agreed.
It always makes me smile how politicians etc refer to weapons as safe/not safe. How can a weapon be safe haha.

yep even if such a weapon was used in self defence it would kill thousands if not millions of innocent civilians :frown:

Reply 38

NJam

JFK was assassinated about a year and a half later anyway :P

Reply 39

Drewski

Original post by John Stuart Mill

Terrible analogy millions of lives were not at risk in said situations.

If you ignore the general point, yes.

But as the general point is that it is the end result that matters, then the process by which we get that end result is less important. End result in this case? A bit of extra flat land in NC. And lesson's learnt by (then) SAC. As an end result, sounds pretty uninteresting, does it not?

What is interesting, though, is that no reference is made to any of the other relatively large number of US nuclear weapon mishaps over the years. Incidents in Greenland and Spain that get, almost, ignored. This thread, on a forum for former and current military pilots, explains a lot more about this and other incidents and also places them in context. During this time the US had bombers with nuclear weapons airborne 24/7 (similar to how they and we run the continual at sea deterrent now). They kept this up for, literally, years. 4-12 aircraft airborne at any one time. Simple law of averages states that at some point they'll come close to one another and have accidents. And they did. We had a couple (albeit smaller) near misses, I would put money on the French having had some, and God alone knows how many the Russians had.
Did the world end? Nope.