The Student Room Group

Should Britain leave the EU?

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Original post by Quady
Your MP, might be more productive than venting on here.


she's a lib dem. that's like trying to convince a labour MP to vote against borrowing or higher taxes. besides, apparently she's not standing for the 2015 elections.

Original post by Hal.E.Lujah
It is condescending, which is exactly how any discussion should be when one line of thinking requires blatant ignorance on the subject at hand.

see, this is your relative condescension shining through - you're suggesting only one side of the debate is valid and everybody disagrees is "blatantly ignorant" - I don't think people who agree with the EU are ignorant, I just think that democracy and our right to self-govern ourselves is a more legitimate cause than the other principles evident in the reasoning for staying in the EU

Original post by Hal.E.Lujah
Perhaps I'm overly impatient, but I've stopped waiting for someone to make an actual argument on the matter that isn't an empathic 'boohoo'. If you do have some of the reasons, I will respond to them (and I promise I won't be patronising or nasty in my responses to actual points ) but all I've seen in this thread and every discussion on this matter are borderline nonsensical rhetoric which relies almost entirely on lingering social stigma.

surely you recognise the democratic deficit not only in the UK from the EU e.g. the matter of why we ought to accept other counties' opinions regarding our own domestic policies, but also within the EU itself e.g. the fact that the parliament is merely a rubber stamp to the virtually unelected leaders? about half our laws come from the EU (I'm not actually making that up, even david cameron, someone who wants us to stay in the EU, stated that)

Original post by Hal.E.Lujah
If I must degrade myself to the level of the points in favour of exiting europe however, then I'll respond with similar levels of reasoning. This obviously means I have to ignore all economic, sociological, and ethical reasoning, and focus instead on micro cases of people 'feeling bad'. What does anyone think will actually happen the moment any of the people calling against Europe try to go on holiday and have to wait in the long line at the airport and fill in forms? I guarantee that opinion will swing around again over a single summer


economic reasoning? we pay £40 million pounds a day to simply stay in, how do we balance that? surely lower taxes and no more tariffs would work just as well without compromising our democratic system? if we were doing fine before the EU, why is it that we were able to enter such a crisis with it? I'm not saying that the EU caused the crisis but did it do anything to help us? it made us bail out other countries, didn't it? why should we have to bail out failing countries? sociological reasoning? what do you mean? the UK isn't europe, the UK is a country that happens to be in europe, there's nothing sociologically invalid about this fact; mexico is in north america, does that mean it should join into a federation with the US and canada? surely there's nothing unhealthy about the fact that we should have the right to not be chained into a binding union with other different countries? ethical reasoning? again, you might think differently but why should other countries decide what laws the UK should adopt? I'm not talking about green policies, I'm talking about basic things like social policy and immigration - surely the only legitimate country to decide things like this is the UK? it's not very democratic to have a larger "country" like the EU when it means that states have less rights to self determination; to allow all countries in euope (not the EU) to determine themselves strengthens local democracy - surely you realise that? would you like to live in a "world state democracy" where people from china, the middle east and africa can decide on how you live? and do you really think the situation of people having to form a queue to go on holiday will cause them to want to delgate supreme authority to the EU? that's like an american person saying "I want to go on holiday to brazil this year, but I have to sign loads of papers, so let's join a political union with them so I don't need to do that boring stuff anymore"
There are both positive and negative implications, and the European Union unequivocally is not, what others may perceive, as a utopia. It is far from it. The business and trade links (including the influx of economic migrants) Britain has achieved as a result of this relationship, has been advantageous but has also brought many flaws nonetheless. Lets take a much discussed topic- immigration, which, although has brought many economic benefits, has provoked conflicts and contentiousness among the locals, especially among the British working class. There is more to a country then its economy.
The notion of 'freedom of movement' prevents the government to have full control over its borders. Anyone from the EU can come, live and work in Britain. The LibLabCon's will have no power over this, regardless of how persuasive Cameron and Milliband may appear to be.

No one can deny the many benefits the EU has provided us, yet the 'dark side' can not go unnoticed, especially with the introduction of two countries which are a lot less economically stable- Bulgaria and Romania. The conservatives tend to be oblivious and blinded by its advantages, and refuse to acknowledge the damage mass migration can potentially cause. Britain really needs to re-evaluate its relationship with Europe. For a country to be truly independent, it will need to have to ability to implement its own rules, such as operating a 'cap' on EU migration numbers, which currently, can not even be politically debated about. The only party that holds this political stance is UKIP, yet leaving the EU completely will also bring its uncertainties. Britain may even lose out from taking such a risk, where it may see the back of many high skilled migrants, employers and a disintegration of trade unions.
Reply 82
Yes, but stay in the EEA. Unless something happens to the corrupt, unelected EU commission and the red tape that it imposes, leaving would be beneficial in the long run, since Germany is the only EU economy that isn't close to failing.

But I don't understand the scare stories about the UK becoming insignificant if we leave, seeing as the UK has a larger economy than Russia, Brazil, Australia, Canada, South Korea, and India (all of which aren't exactly 'insignificant').
(edited 10 years ago)

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