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"In the feminised West, to be male is to be guilty."

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Original post by yepyepyep
What are you on about? How can you possibly feel discriminated against because your school chose poor texts to study? Maybe your opinion just was wrong, perhaps you are no good at English Literature.
Also, guys aren't really pushed out of the arts, most are just sensible enough not to study them in the first place. It's harder for females trying to get into a subject which is actually useful, and always male dominated.


I suppose you had to be there to feel what sort of happened. It was not the first time people didn't like that teacher because of her blatant favouritism. Like I said, I know at the time I wasn't an A grade literature student but I was competent, yet I was told I was wrong every time. So I lost interest.

I'm not saying it isn't hard for females to get into traditionally male dominated subjects, I'm just pointing out that it's equally hard for males to do well in the arts.
Original post by yepyepyep
What are you on about? How can you possibly feel discriminated against because your school chose poor texts to study? Maybe your opinion just was wrong, perhaps you are no good at English Literature.
Also, guys aren't really pushed out of the arts, most are just sensible enough not to study them in the first place. It's harder for females trying to get into a subject which is actually useful, and always male dominated.


I'm not sure whether it's ironic or sad how sexist this post is.
Ha feminists - always wanting something for nothing. Look at me i have tits im so discriminated against. Give me everything!
Original post by Welsh_insomniac

I'm not saying it isn't hard for females to get into traditionally male dominated subjects, I'm just pointing out that it's equally hard for males to do well in the arts.


Right then, so why were you trying to use it as an example of systematic sexism against males in the education system, if you acknowledge that females face similar problems?
Original post by LightBlueSoldier
I'm not sure whether it's ironic or sad how sexist this post is.


Care to elaborate? I can't see how anything I said was sexist in the slightest.
Reply 65
Original post by truffle_girl
Evidence?
''Poor gender ratio in science and engineering has been a big concern in the U.S. and has been studied in detail by Elaine Seymour of the University of Colorado and Suzanne Brainardof the University of Washington,among others. They identified the presence of a “leaky pipeline” (Seymour, 2002) in science, technology, math and engineering (STEM) programs, where by women systematically drop out of the STEM track at various points along the education. For instance, in 2010, 30 percent of enrolled students in engineering programs were female, but only 18.5 percent received degrees. Specifically, research identified the existence of a “chilly climate” (Seymour 1995, Brainard 1998) for females in engineering colleges. Females reportedly experienced feelings of isolation, lack of respect from male classmates and faculty, and a lack of confidence leading eventually to their dropping out. This chilly climate is one reason among others that also prevents females from opting for engineering studies''. http://www.topuniversities.com/courses/engineering/stem-gender-gap-universities
Original post by yepyepyep
Right then, so why were you trying to use it as an example of systematic sexism against males in the education system, if you acknowledge that females face similar problems?


Because people already acknowledge systematic sexism against females but they do not against males. Youre almost proving the point of the OP by dismissing my points in a hostile tone.
Reply 67
In the postmodernist and poststructuralist university atmosphere, to be male, white, straight, middle-class, right-wing, and English is to be guilty
Original post by sbs20
''Poor gender ratio in science and engineering has been a big concern in the U.S. and has been studied in detail by Elaine Seymour of the University of Colorado and Suzanne Brainardof the University of Washington,among others. They identified the presence of a “leaky pipeline” (Seymour, 2002) in science, technology, math and engineering (STEM) programs, where by women systematically drop out of the STEM track at various points along the education. For instance, in 2010, 30 percent of enrolled students in engineering programs were female, but only 18.5 percent received degrees. Specifically, research identified the existence of a “chilly climate” (Seymour 1995, Brainard 1998) for females in engineering colleges. Females reportedly experienced feelings of isolation, lack of respect from male classmates and faculty, and a lack of confidence leading eventually to their dropping out. This chilly climate is one reason among others that also prevents females from opting for engineering studies''. http://www.topuniversities.com/courses/engineering/stem-gender-gap-universities


The same could be said about the hostility exhibited towards males in the arts.
Original post by yepyepyep
What are you on about? How can you possibly feel discriminated against because your school chose poor texts to study? Maybe your opinion just was wrong, perhaps you are no good at English Literature.
Also, guys aren't really pushed out of the arts, most are just sensible enough not to study them in the first place. It's harder for females trying to get into a subject which is actually useful, and always male dominated.


The joy of the arts is that is rarely of the manichaen description you claim.
Reply 70
For most part, i'm sure us males are fine for the moment and err, "Not guility"

Although, that housemates thread early on was disgusting "It isnt sexist for women to want other women housemates, for obvious reasons with having a man in the house"
Yea, all men are violent raping *******s. :rolleyes:
I think that statement is a bit too strong.

Although men are more likely to be convicted/get a harsher punishment than women for the same crime.

This is just an inequality that exists in society, I'm not sure that you can attribute this to the "feminised west".
Original post by Rational Thinker
The joy of the arts is that is rarely of the manichaen description you claim.


No, I've heard people come up with some absolutely ridiculous opinions in English lessons, speculating that the writer was trying to convey something which clearly wasn't intended.
Original post by Welsh_insomniac
Because people already acknowledge systematic sexism against females but they do not against males. Youre almost proving the point of the OP by dismissing my points in a hostile tone.


That doesn't change the fact that the oppression is present though. Whether or not it's acknowledged isn't what we are debating. I was dismissive about your point because you presented it so poorly, if you had actually offered an example displaying evidence of sexism against you then fine, but you were vague about what happened and even tried to say the texts which were chosen for you were in some way sexist.
Original post by yepyepyep
No, I've heard people come up with some absolutely ridiculous opinions in English lessons, speculating that the writer was trying to convey something which clearly wasn't intended.


Nonetheless, in you think in a manichaean way you will never grasp that arts. Are you comments full of a desire to denigrate others and do they display a dismissive attitude? "yepyepyep".
Original post by Rational Thinker
Nonetheless, in you think in a manichaean way you will never grasp that arts. Are you comments full of a desire to denigrate others and do they display a dismissive attitude? "yepyepyep".

Funny, because I pretty well excelled in them, I just don't think their place is as important as other disciplines.
A dismissive attitude, yes. One which is justified.
Original post by Plainview
In the postmodernist and poststructuralist university atmosphere, to be male, white, straight, middle-class, right-wing, and English is to be guilty


Wow! Which uni do you go to?

(Edit: oh and you missed out non-disabled and cis from your list of privileges :wink:)
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by sbs20
''Poor gender ratio in science and engineering has been a big concern in the U.S. and has been studied in detail by Elaine Seymour of the University of Colorado and Suzanne Brainardof the University of Washington,among others. They identified the presence of a “leaky pipeline” (Seymour, 2002) in science, technology, math and engineering (STEM) programs, where by women systematically drop out of the STEM track at various points along the education. For instance, in 2010, 30 percent of enrolled students in engineering programs were female, but only 18.5 percent received degrees. Specifically, research identified the existence of a “chilly climate” (Seymour 1995, Brainard 1998) for females in engineering colleges. Females reportedly experienced feelings of isolation, lack of respect from male classmates and faculty, and a lack of confidence leading eventually to their dropping out. This chilly climate is one reason among others that also prevents females from opting for engineering studies''. http://www.topuniversities.com/courses/engineering/stem-gender-gap-universities


Forgive me if I'm missing something, but I don't see the text you quote, in the article you link to; I just see statistics confirming that there are more male than female students on such courses, which is something I doubt anyone denies.

I find the "For instance, in 2010, 30 percent of enrolled students in engineering programs were female, but only 18.5 percent received degrees." Which subset of the 30%, are they drawing the 18.5% from? Furthermore, the link you provide states: "In the US, a recent report from Georgetown University showed that only 16% of engineering majors are female." and "For instance, women make up just 12% of engineering students at universities in the UK, and just 4% of those taking engineering apprenticeships."

So, one minute it's 30% of students in engineering that are female, the next it's 12% or 16%? So, you believe two contradictory things?
Reply 78
Original post by sbs20
''Poor gender ratio in science and engineering has been a big concern in the U.S. and has been studied in detail by Elaine Seymour of the University of Colorado and Suzanne Brainardof the University of Washington,among others. They identified the presence of a “leaky pipeline” (Seymour, 2002) in science, technology, math and engineering (STEM) programs, where by women systematically drop out of the STEM track at various points along the education. For instance, in 2010, 30 percent of enrolled students in engineering programs were female, but only 18.5 percent received degrees. Specifically, research identified the existence of a “chilly climate” (Seymour 1995, Brainard 1998) for females in engineering colleges. Females reportedly experienced feelings of isolation, lack of respect from male classmates and faculty, and a lack of confidence leading eventually to their dropping out. This chilly climate is one reason among others that also prevents females from opting for engineering studies''. http://www.topuniversities.com/courses/engineering/stem-gender-gap-universities


An alternative:

Too many girls are let in who shouldn't be at uni studying engineering in order to fulfill quota (especially in the US) - these girls then can't keep up and have to drop out.
Original post by PQ
Wow! Which uni do you go to?

(Edit: oh and you missed out non-disabled and cis from your list of privileges :wink:)


He has a point. Though I would stipulate that the sexism extents to all males but particularly Caucasian males.

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