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Is National Socialism inherently racist?

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Original post by demx9
I believe it can exist in a state that doesn't require racial descrimination; of course the term has been polluted by German nazism to such an extent where it is simply seen as a racist ideology.

I would like to remember the UK had a NS party before the II world war.


I would agree with you, National Socialism can exist completely interdependently of any racist or discriminatory policies or tendencies.

Sadly though it has as you said simply been polluted in the public perception to almost an irredeemable point.
I think the ideology can return and can be prominent but it must sadly move away from the label of National Socilism and it's route foundation of Fascism.

The core atributes, ideals and ideologies will of course remain, it just needs a re-branding.
Original post by Rakas21
or do it on the basis of blond hair and blue eyes t.


I have to say, posting this type of thing makes us anti-racists look foolish to the educated person. The Nazis never ever said anything about blonde hair and blue eyed master race. It's a myth. Find me evidence from Nazi doctrine to support this. You won't believe me i have looked. Let's keep things to facts.
Reply 22
Original post by Rakas21
I share your dislike for nationalism, it's important to celebrate your (or your countries accomplishments) to some degree but often nationalism is limiting.

Personally i think the bigger shame is the stain that the Nazi's put on eugenics. While it's wrong to kill those deemed undesirable or do it on the basis of blond hair and blue eyes there is nothing inherently wrong with the goal of creating superior genetic stock, in this day and age that can be done via selective breeding of the smartest people or most healthy or even altering the genome of a child before their birth to weed out certain genes.



Most ideologues are banded as being left or right dependent on their economic stance and in that sense the word socialist is a correct definition given the anti-rich, communist sympathies and heavily taxing, interventionist policies followed by Hitler and the Nazi's. Clearly however their variation of it was substantially different socially when compared to the likes of Marx.


Nazi's were hardly socialist; they hated communism in fact.
Reply 23
Original post by jimmyjonestown
I have to say, posting this type of thing makes us anti-racists look foolish to the educated person. The Nazis never ever said anything about blonde hair and blue eyed master race. It's a myth. Find me evidence from Nazi doctrine to support this. You won't believe me i have looked. Let's keep things to facts.


In fact they were much more interested in occultism and indian spirituality.. they viewed indo-european Aryans as the superior race and considering the history you can't disagree with that.
Original post by demx9
In fact they were much more interested in occultism and indian spirituality.. they viewed indo-european Aryans as the superior race and considering the history you can't disagree with that.



I don't think what we would call Indians today are what the Nazis were interested in. The theory is that White Europeans populated those lands many thousands of years ago but were blended out of existence through miscegenation so to speak. I believe the Nazis were interested in that part of history.

Yes they did think the so called white people were "superior" but that wasn't just blonde, blue eyed white people-that would have been kind of silly considering most of the high profile Nazis didn't fit that description themselves. You have to keep in mind though, at that time (and lets be honest even today) pretty much all "races" thought their "race" was superior.
Reply 25
Original post by jimmyjonestown
I don't think what we would call Indians today are what the Nazis were interested in. The theory is that White Europeans populated those lands many thousands of years ago but were blended out of existence through miscegenation so to speak. I believe the Nazis were interested in that part of history.

Yes they did think the so called white people were "superior" but that wasn't just blonde, blue eyed white people-that would have been kind of silly considering most of the high profile Nazis didn't fit that description themselves. You have to keep in mind though, at that time (and lets be honest even today) pretty much all "races" thought their "race" was superior.


They were interested in India:
-they sent SS to Nepal to study ancient hindu books
-Himmler, highest SS general, always carried with him a copy of the Bhagavad Gita
-the Swastika is a Indian spiritual symbol
Original post by demx9
They were interested in India:
-they sent SS to Nepal to study ancient hindu books
-Himmler, highest SS general, always carried with him a copy of the Bhagavad Gita
-the Swastika is a Indian spiritual symbol


And as i said before they were interested in India because they believed that the civilizations there where of Aryan origin aka white Europeans. This is what they were researching and believed. I am not saying this theory is correct.

Don't confuse the India of present with the India of the past. It's like saying Native Americans studying "America" are interested in what it is now.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by demx9

-the Swastika is a Indian spiritual symbol



Another myth. What you are talking about is really called a "Hakenkreuz". It's of ancient Norse and Germanic origin.
Reply 28
Original post by jimmyjonestown
Another myth. What you are talking about is really called a "Hakenkreuz". It's of ancient Norse and Germanic origin.


It certainly was used in Europe before, but the origins are from India.
Original post by demx9
It certainly was used in Europe before, but the origins are from India.


Perhaps (and forgetting about the orientation of the various symbols that are similar in shape that have been found around the world), but as i have said three times already, according to the Nazis and other historians of the time, the people in the area we now called India were not the same people as those that inhabited the lands thousands of years ago--the story is they were white European folk-- if we understand that it kinda makes sense why the Nazis were interested in that geographical area, doesn't it.
Reply 30
Original post by jimmyjonestown
Perhaps (and forgetting about the orientation of the various symbols that are similar in shape that have been found around the world), but as i have said three times already, according to the Nazis and other historians of the time, the people in the area we now called India were not the same people as those that inhabited the lands thousands of years ago--the story is they were white European folk-- if we understand that it kinda makes sense why the Nazis were interested in that geographical area, doesn't it.


Well if the theory of an Indo-European invasion of the Indus Valley is true then I would think current indians come from that civilazation. In fact they have similair racial characteristics to europeans, except the skin color slightly darker because of more sun they have.
Reply 31
I think anything with the word "national" in is rather racist
Original post by demx9
Well if the theory of an Indo-European invasion of the Indus Valley is true then I would think current indians come from that civilazation. In fact they have similair racial characteristics to europeans, except the skin color slightly darker because of more sun they have.


The history the Nazis were interested in said the current Indians are as they are because of miscegenation--the original creators of that civilization were white Europeans, who were biologically absorbed via interbreeding. I would presume the darker Indians have more Dravidian genetics--i mean after all, that is the whole point of the Cast system right?
Reply 33
Original post by demx9
In fact they were much more interested in occultism and indian spirituality.. they viewed indo-european Aryans as the superior race and considering the history you can't disagree with that.


Ok, let's set the record straight.

The Vedas was interesting in Germany a long time ago and was translated. The term 'arya' came up frequently in the Vedas and appeared to refer to a race of people. However Arya is a Sanskrit word and it means 'noble' and does not refer to a race of people. The west absolutely destroyed the Vedas with there terrible translations.

The Aryan Invasion theory is also false, quite simply, nothing more to say. It's a way for Europe to feel responsible for Sanskrit, the Vedas and the Indian civilisations. Aryan and Dravidians are not as much of a reality as people believe.

They were not interested in Indian spirituality, let's get real. India has had Jewish colonies for at least a thousand years and they've come to no harm from Hindus.

They stole the Swastika as a symbol of their hatred. For is, it is an auspicious symbol and ALWAYS has been. I dont care how the Nazis used it. My mum still paints a red Swastika on the front door during Diwali.


But to OP. No it's not racist. We must all be at a common level to care for the whole of humanity in all of our actions.

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(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Ggmu!

The Aryan Invasion theory is also false, quite simply, nothing more to say. It's a way for Europe to feel responsible for Sanskrit, the Vedas and the Indian civilisations. Aryan and Dravidians are not as much of a reality as people believe.


Sources please or is sounds like the work of Indian supremacists.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 35
Original post by jimmyjonestown
Sources please or is sounds like the work of Indian supremacists.


The Aryan Invasion theory is the work of white supremacists. Show me some proof for this stupid theory. There is no evidence of a mass migration of white people into India.



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Reply 36
Original post by Ggmu!
The Aryan Invasion theory is the work of white supremacists. Show me some proof for this stupid theory. There is no evidence of a mass migration of white people into India.



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No-one's saying there was. The Nazi version of Aryans is completely different to the actual Aryans, who were an Indo-Iranian people from central Asia. No idea if they were white or not, but they definitely did invade northern India.

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