Why do people believe in free will?

I find it bizarre that anyone can find it in themselves to continue believing in this assumption without challenging it. It seems to be one of those things that people determinedly want to believe.

Is there any logical basis for this idea at all?

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Reply 1

felamaslen

No, free will is an incoherent concept. It's a nice shorthand though for the fact that it is conducive to human well-being to treat people as if they have responsibility for their actions.

Reply 2

DZ1987

Try and read Kant's Critique of Practical Reason. It's a tough but rewarding read.

Reply 3

miser

I think people grow up in a culture where more-or-less everyone believes in free will and so people get used to thinking of themselves and their life in those terms. Then when someone challenges that idea, they don't understand at all what it would be like if they didn't have free will, and the thought is so alien to them that they dismiss it outright. It's very difficult to argue against a person's intuition, and I do think you're right in that people want to have it because the alternative might seem bleak to them.

In general, I don't mind that people believe in it in a way that seems to me to be out of faith, but I do find it mildly disconcerting when people use their assumption of free will's existence to justify things like the severe treatment of criminals; decisions over important issues ought to be better informed in my opinion.

Reply 4

Martyn*

1. The notion that free Will is a fact means that people can be punished for their actions. The belief in free Will meant that people could be found guilty, tried and punished.
2. Religion advocates and promotes the notion that humans have free Will so that "sinners" can be punished.

That's it.

Reply 5

silvershadows

'We have to believe in free-will. We've got no choice.'~Isaac Bashevis Singer

It's impossible to think as though we don't have free will, it's the basis of the legal system.

I doubt most people would believe in it objectively if they really thought about it.

However, subjectively we do make choices, even if those choices are objectively only a combination of internal and external factors.
I guess that's a different definition of free will to the general one, but I think that if one were at least in part affected by internal factors, one could be said to be making the decision freely (subjectively).

I've probably expressed that horrendously, I may edit it later *yawns*

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 6

miser

Original post by silvershadows

It's impossible to think as though we don't have free will, it's the basis of the legal system.

However, subjectively we do make choices, even if those choices are objectively only a combination of internal and external factors.
I guess that's a different definition of free will to the general one, but I think that if one were at least in part affected by internal factors, one could be said to be making the decision freely (subjectively).

I've probably expressed that horrendously, I may edit it later *yawns*

What you're describing here is roughly what is known as compatibilism - the idea that just because we are a product of the factors you mention, that does not necessarily mean we don't free will. (Though I don't personally subscribe to this view.)

Reply 7

pjm600

Original post by StarvingAutist

If I can chose between watching programme A or B, I have free will to decide which one I want to watch, no?

:candycane:

Reply 8

blurrygirl

I think a lot of people don't want to believe there's free will because if there is, then we're all responsible for the things we do, and when we mess up, there's no one to blame but ourselves.
If someone else is calling the shots, then its their fault if we mess up

Reply 9

MJ1012

Original post by silvershadows

Yeah, I believe our decisions are just made from our original biological, psychological state and environmental factors that influence this outside of our control. Every thought that I have, every idea of morality I have, everything I do is just a combination of these two things which are effectively out of my control

Reply 10

silvershadows

Original post by miser

If you don't mind me saying, these seem like two unconnected claims. I don't think it is impossible to think as though we don't have free will, since I already do so. It could be argued that free will is the basis of the legal system, but I don't think this is out of necessity; I think it's possible to envision a legal system which did not appeal to moral responsibility - only pragmatism.

What you're describing here is roughly what is known as compatibilism - the idea that just because we are a product of the factors you mention, that does not necessarily mean we don't free will. (Though I don't personally subscribe to this view.)

They really are, I wasn't particularly sober when I made that point, no idea what I was thinking (usually I argue against that assumption). :blushing:

But when you decide to pursue a course of action, don't you subjectively feel as though you've made a decision? Obviously if you were to look back on it you might be able to understand that really it was just a result of x, y and z (and many more things), but at the moment when one makes a decision, one feels as though one has a choice to do otherwise. I think one's view rests on one's definition of free will. I don't think there's much point even discussing the religious idea of free will, it doesn't make the least bit of sense, and personally I don't know what people are actually arguing when they talk about it in that manner. It's meaning seems to disprove itself. However, if you define a free decision as one made without (much) hindrance from external influences, rather (mostly) through our predetermined motives, is there really still a problem? I suppose you could argue that it's hard to draw a line between internal and external factors? Sorry if I don't make much sense, I'm fairly useless at arguing, and may have just repeated what I've already said. :rolleyes:

Reply 11

Dragonfly07

Original post by StarvingAutist

If you believe that free will doesn't exist then you shouldn't find it bizarre at all that anyone believes anything, considering they don't have any control over their beliefs.

Reply 12

silvershadows

Original post by MJ1012

And I would wholeheartedly agree with that. I don't believe in the classical definition of freedom (sometimes I even swing towards hard determinism), but I can't help but feel that the decisions we make mostly due to the determinism within our mind are still ours. It's like, if someone couldn't make it to a particular event due to a traffic jam, that would be seen in a different light to them not showing up because they didn't feel like it (due to other sets of predetermined factors)- in one situation environmental factors are coming into play, and in the other it's a result of predetermined factors within your mind. I know that the factors within one's mind are also determined by a combination of the factors you mentioned, but I feel there should be some sort of distinction between that and the other scenario.

Reply 13

StarvingAutist

Original post by pjm600

If I can chose between watching programme A or B, I have free will to decide which one I want to watch, no?

:candycane:

It appears that way to you, yes. However, it was bound to happen when you think about the events leading up to the decision.

Original post by Dragonfly07

If you believe that free will doesn't exist then you shouldn't find it bizarre at all that anyone believes anything, considering they don't have any control over their beliefs.

'Shouldn't find it bizarre' - sorry, I can't help it.

Reply 14

pjm600

Original post by StarvingAutist

It appears that way to you, yes. However, it was bound to happen when you think about the events leading up to the decision.

Can you expand on that?

Reply 15

Dragonfly07

Original post by StarvingAutist

'Shouldn't find it bizarre' - sorry, I can't help it.

I do believe in free will so I can use that kind of language without it sounding strange.

Reply 16

SHOO

Because you can make choices

Reply 17

StarvingAutist

Original post by pjm600

Can you expand on that?

Well, from birth you have been exposed to an environment which has influenced the development of your personality, and you have a genetic factor in how your brain works too. Your brain responds to the environment due to its structure & biases so in that respect you have no choice over your actions, since you had no choice about how your personality was formed.
Also, you don't choose which chemical process should happen in your body at a particular incident, and you don't choose how your body responds to that.