Should Lee Rigby killers get the death sentence
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Original post by Lucy96
I don't get why you're being so picky. I want them to suffer because of the suffering they brought upon the victim and his family. Simple.
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I see. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. How barbaric.
Original post by felamaslen
I see. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. How barbaric.
Precisely. I don't actually care, if I'm honest.
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Original post by Lucy96
Neither do I particularly, but I do think that the ideas which the two men espoused are real and should be taken seriously.
Original post by felamaslen
Neither do I particularly, but I do think that the ideas which the two men espoused are real and should be taken seriously.
That doesn't justify the horrifically brutal murder they carried out on an innocent man, though. There are other ways.
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The savage in me would love to see those feet dangling from the gallows, but I think a life imprisonment with others, who struggle more than me to contain their savagery, will do just as nicely.
Original post by felamaslen
I see. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. How barbaric.
Only fitting i suppose, barbaric punishment for barbaric people.
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Original post by Aj12
No, the death penalty does not do anything. It also ends up working out more expensive than life imprisonment which in my opinion is far worse than death.
Excuse my ignorance, but what's the reason for this? I've heard it costs many thousands a year for each prisoner in jail.
Original post by Lucy96
That doesn't justify the horrifically brutal murder they carried out on an innocent man, though. There are other ways.
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The ideas don't justify what they did, they caused what they did! The men are just pawns, slaves to their ideology. The ideology in question? Islamism. That is what needs to be fought. It never ceases to produce massive suffering and blood loss worldwide, every single day pretty much.
Original post by little_wizard123
Excuse my ignorance, but what's the reason for this? I've heard it costs many thousands a year for each prisoner in jail.
It costs many thousands more in the billion appeals each convict gets, as well as court costs, legal fees etc etc...AS WELL as being kept alive for that time.
Original post by felamaslen
The ideas don't justify what they did, they caused what they did! The men are just pawns, slaves to their ideology. The ideology in question? Islamism. That is what needs to be fought. It never ceases to produce massive suffering and blood loss worldwide, every single day pretty much.
That didn't take long. Insane people need an outlet. These ones chose Islam. Take that away and they'll just use something else as their conduit.
Original post by Viva Emptiness
That didn't take long. Insane people need an outlet. These ones chose Islam. Take that away and they'll just use something else as their conduit.
Not quite true. Fascism has been destroyed. Communism has almost been destroyed. We can do the same with Islamism if we try hard enough.
Original post by felamaslen
Not quite true. Fascism has been destroyed. Communism has almost been destroyed. We can do the same with Islamism if we try hard enough.
These things get destroyed, yet SOMEHOW people are still getting killed in the name of one thing or another.
Do you think that, in a parallel universe identical to our one in all ways apart from in this one Islam doesn't exist, that those two men would never have committed such a heinous crime in the name of something else?
Original post by Lucy96
I don't get why you're being so picky. I want them to suffer because of the suffering they brought upon the victim and his family. Simple.
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Justice should not, and if it to remain just, cannot be about victims or their families.
If you make it about justice for the victims you have to take into account the opinions of those victims with regard to the sentence. So if Lee Rigby's family are very forgiving, and some people do forgive, they may simply wish to talk to the killers and let them get on with their lives. Most people would be appalled, but you have taken this away from being about society giving just deserts as a collective and made it about the victims. On the contrary someone may be particularly harsh, say a big corporation has a shoplifter steal a fiver's worth and wants to send a message to protect their profits, give 'em life. Most people would again be horrified, but society's opinion once more is irrelevant.
In order to be just justice has to be consistent, victim justice is nothing of the sort.
Original post by Aj12
No, the death penalty does not do anything. It also ends up working out more expensive than life imprisonment which in my opinion is far worse than death.
A bullet to the brain is more expensive than 30 years of living costs?
What a lovely, progressive bunch of people you are...
I honestly expected better of the educated. I was wrong
I honestly expected better of the educated. I was wrong
Original post by Viva Emptiness
These things get destroyed, yet SOMEHOW people are still getting killed in the name of one thing or another.
Do you think that, in a parallel universe identical to our one in all ways apart from in this one Islam doesn't exist, that those two men would never have committed such a heinous crime in the name of something else?
Do you think that, in a parallel universe identical to our one in all ways apart from in this one Islam doesn't exist, that those two men would never have committed such a heinous crime in the name of something else?
It's hard to say, but I'm optimistic and think that it is not in people's genes to do this sort of thing. However, it is in people's genes (somewhat) to believe in things without evidence. Many people in Germany believe in democracy tacitly, I should think, similarly to how they believed in Fascism tacitly a few generations ago. Obviously democracy is much more defensible than fascism, but people's motives for believing in it are not necessarily based on these good reasons but because it is the norm (i.e. memetics). So if you can change the prevalence of certain belief systems, stigmatising some while encouraging others, you can (hopefully) influence human behaviour for the better. Treating these people as lone wolves is ludicrous.
By the way, it is important to differentiate Islamism from Islam, because if you do not do so, you alienate a large chunk of good people who we need in order to fight the former.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Kiss
A bullet to the brain is more expensive than 30 years of living costs?
It probably includes all the legal costs, bureaucracy etc.
Original post by felamaslen
It probably includes all the legal costs, bureaucracy etc.
No not really. He has just been proven guilty, we dont need anymore trials, we have just had them.
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To all of you calling for his head I ask of you this:
Could you do it yourself?
Death penalty is murder. If the day ever comes where the death penalty is reinstated, I am out of here. I can't believe people actually support the notion of state sponsored killings.
Could you do it yourself?
Death penalty is murder. If the day ever comes where the death penalty is reinstated, I am out of here. I can't believe people actually support the notion of state sponsored killings.
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