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Marks and Spencer have some explaining to do...
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Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
1) Explain why
2) No you haven't, and I've pointed out the holes in it. Your argument is "if another country won't do it, we won't do it", which considering what some other countries allow and disallow, is preposterous
3) Address the point please
4) Ad hominem
How are you going to know who is Muslim and who isn't? Unless they're wearing religious clothing
2) No you haven't, and I've pointed out the holes in it. Your argument is "if another country won't do it, we won't do it", which considering what some other countries allow and disallow, is preposterous
3) Address the point please
4) Ad hominem
How are you going to know who is Muslim and who isn't? Unless they're wearing religious clothing
Why don't you have a good argument? Well, because you haven't made one... All you've said is that I'm wrong.
Tell you what. We're going round in circles here. You're completely right. We should just bend over to every minority. Sounds like a great idea. I'm right wing, therefore I'm going to just stop paying my taxes.. Why should I pay for some scumbag on the dole.
I can't argue with somebody who is omnipotent.. However, can I ask, are you employed? Or a student?
Original post by qr95
What do I know nothing about? I'm pretty sure I would know more about Islam than you having read the Quran and I was a Muslim for 19 years of My life until I woke up and smelled the coffee.
Original post by uktotalgamer
Why don't you have a good argument? Well, because you haven't made one... All you've said is that I'm wrong.
Tell you what. We're going round in circles here. You're completely right. We should just bend over to every minority. Sounds like a great idea. I'm right wing, therefore I'm going to just stop paying my taxes.. Why should I pay for some scumbag on the dole.
Please stop quoting me. I can't argue with somebody who is omnipotent..
Tell you what. We're going round in circles here. You're completely right. We should just bend over to every minority. Sounds like a great idea. I'm right wing, therefore I'm going to just stop paying my taxes.. Why should I pay for some scumbag on the dole.
Please stop quoting me. I can't argue with somebody who is omnipotent..
1) I have explained why you are wrong. I explained why your Afghanistan point was wrong. YOU are the one who hasn't ADDRESSED it
personally i wouldnt work there
There are two issues here and I have different opinions on them both.
The handling of certain meats and beverages issue seems a little silly to me. I suspect that this is a policy decision by M&S which was made with the right intentions but is actually a bit of a bad idea. It would be interesting to know how many M&S employees will make use of the option to refuse to handle certain products. If it turns out that this policy will not actually have much of an impact on customers, then perhaps this isn't such a big problem...
The prayer room issue is different. For many religions, prayer is an important part of daily life. Providing, where possible, space for employees to pray is a good thing. My employer has two rooms in each of our four buildings set aside. They are not called prayer rooms - I think they are called quiet rooms or something like that. They are always open and designed for people to go an pray in, as well as just to have some time to sit in a quiet space.
Making reasonable provisions for staff members is important to ensuring that you have happy people working for you.
The handling of certain meats and beverages issue seems a little silly to me. I suspect that this is a policy decision by M&S which was made with the right intentions but is actually a bit of a bad idea. It would be interesting to know how many M&S employees will make use of the option to refuse to handle certain products. If it turns out that this policy will not actually have much of an impact on customers, then perhaps this isn't such a big problem...
The prayer room issue is different. For many religions, prayer is an important part of daily life. Providing, where possible, space for employees to pray is a good thing. My employer has two rooms in each of our four buildings set aside. They are not called prayer rooms - I think they are called quiet rooms or something like that. They are always open and designed for people to go an pray in, as well as just to have some time to sit in a quiet space.
Making reasonable provisions for staff members is important to ensuring that you have happy people working for you.
Original post by alexmagpie
I don't see why it's such a big deal, considering that we employ plenty of under 18s who have to get alcohol sales done by somebody of age. That pretty much negates the whole "if you can't do the job, don't work there" thing.
Good point!
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Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
Because Muslims are meant to pray 5 times a day.
I don't see what's wrong with this. There are other staff who can serve them, it isn't a problem really is it
I don't see what's wrong with this. There are other staff who can serve them, it isn't a problem really is it
Praying 5 times is one thing and not serving non halal products are totally different things. They took a job knowing they have to serve non halal products.
For praying, try get shifts which doesn't clash with your prayers or perhaps 5 mins can be exempted in such case. Saying all, they shouldn't be working in a place which doesn't offer them such rather find some other jobs.
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
Do we have any evidence they don't do the same for other religions or other people?
If I google search for this story it comes up. If I try to search for Hindus, jains, jews etc. with MandS it does not come up. Also from being a regular shopper at MandS not once have I been told by a Hindu Cashier (I live in Harrow so they're all Indian lol) that I can't buy meat at the till.
If this happened to me I would request and English worker to serve me as abstaining from alcohol for religious reasons is not an English tradition and I would assume they're not from this country.
What I love is how people wonder why people are pissed off at this country bending over backwards and castrating our businesses and services. If you don't want the BNP or EDL complaining or gaining popularity, stop giving people special treatment for belonging to a certain religion and stop destroying English customer service.
What I love is how people wonder why people are pissed off at this country bending over backwards and castrating our businesses and services. If you don't want the BNP or EDL complaining or gaining popularity, stop giving people special treatment for belonging to a certain religion and stop destroying English customer service.
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
1) I have explained why you are wrong. I explained why your Afghanistan point was wrong. YOU are the one who hasn't ADDRESSED it
Are you employed, or a student?
Does it not bother you now that muslims can basically refuse to do part of their job, but face no repercussions?
If this were vegetarians or irreligious teetotallers doing this then people would just say 'man up'.
Is it really that much hassle to have seperate tills for people purchasing these items e.g People buying alcohol/pork should go to one till and people not buying them should go to the other one? If people know about this in advance, I doubt it will really be that much of a problem.
Regarding the prayer room stuff, that is just unfair. If a prayer room has been set aside for use, why should people be denied access to it. Not allowing them to follow their religion by praying 5 times a day when the facilities are there is just stupid.
Regarding the prayer room stuff, that is just unfair. If a prayer room has been set aside for use, why should people be denied access to it. Not allowing them to follow their religion by praying 5 times a day when the facilities are there is just stupid.
Original post by HashimKF
What do I know nothing about? I'm pretty sure I would know more about Islam than you having read the Quran and I was a Muslim for 19 years of My life until I woke up and smelled the coffee.
Ok if it makes you happy
Another story probably blown out of proportion but to be fair, anyone who has a problem with handling these goods simply shouldn't work there. And it also makes no sense to get paid by a company which technically sells the product but take issue with directly receiving the money for it.
Original post by qr95
Then Maybe you would agree that they should get paid only as much as the Under 18 workers seeing as they aren't fulfilling the full job requirements.
Original post by HashimKF
If I google search for this story it comes up. If I try to search for Hindus, jains, jews etc. with MandS it does not come up. Also from being a regular shopper at MandS not once have I been told by a Hindu Cashier (I live in Harrow so they're all Indian lol) that I can't buy meat at the till.
Fair enough. I do agree the policy should be extended to others, but I don't feel that having seperate tills is a big deal
Original post by uktotalgamer
Are you employed, or a student?
Does it not bother you now that muslims can basically refuse to do part of their job, but face no repercussions?
Does it not bother you now that muslims can basically refuse to do part of their job, but face no repercussions?
Student.
Considering there is a reasonable alternative, in this case, seperate tills, no
Original post by Algorithm69
So ideology now allows you special privileges over your fellow man?
I'm a libertarian. Can I be exempt from paying tax?
I'm a libertarian. Can I be exempt from paying tax?
Shouldn't you support a private business's right to refuse service for any reason they please? Did you stand up those B&B owners who turned away the gay couple based on their religious values?
Original post by qr95
Ok if it makes you happy
No no, please do tell me why I don't know what I am talking about.
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
This. I don't get it either!!!
lol it's so stupid... people are complaining about M&S exempting Muslims from scanning a packet of pork through the till, but what about bigger issues such as Sikhs legally being allowed to carry knifes? Why can't I walk about with a knife but a Sikh can? I never hear anyone complaining about that...
I guess Muslims having 5 minute break in a prayer room is a bigger issue to society though.
M&S has previous on this:
Shopper Sally Friday felt publicly humiliated at a branch of Marks & Spencer when she tried to pay for First Bible Stories as a gift for her young grandson.
When she put the book on the check-out counter, the young assistant refused to touch it, declared it was unclean and summoned another member of staff to serve instead.
Mrs Friday said she was so upset that she has now complained to the store’s management.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/31491/Outcry-as-Muslim-M-S-worker-refuses-to-sell-unclean-Bible-book
Shopper Sally Friday felt publicly humiliated at a branch of Marks & Spencer when she tried to pay for First Bible Stories as a gift for her young grandson.
When she put the book on the check-out counter, the young assistant refused to touch it, declared it was unclean and summoned another member of staff to serve instead.
Mrs Friday said she was so upset that she has now complained to the store’s management.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/31491/Outcry-as-Muslim-M-S-worker-refuses-to-sell-unclean-Bible-book
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