Mass routine after completing Starting Strength
A mate of mine has recently finished the Starting Strength program and asked me what's a good routine to hop on to now to start gaining some mass. A lot of new guys find themselves in this very situation, so I figured I'd post the program that I knocked up for him.
The program below is heavily based on the novice phase of Ice Cream Fitness 5x5 program, however I've adapted it for hypertrophy instead of strength, using lighter weights for higher reps and opting for 3 sets per exercise with shorter rest periods between sets as well as increased time under tension.
At this early stage of your lifting career, it's still important to have a compound-dominant routine, as this allows for a good rate of all-over growth when combined with good nutrition.
Rest peroids:
60-90 seconds rest between sets. 90 for more demanding lifts like squats and deadlifts, whereas easier ones should be kept to 60 seconds rest.
Tempo:
<1 second lift (explode, but controlled). 3-4 seconds lowering.
Increased Time Under Tension = better mass gains.
NEVER underestimate the lowering/negative portion of each rep. Novices tend to just drop the weight down after each rep, but lowering the weight slowly and under control, maintaining tension all the way down will stimulate the muscle fibers even more than the contraction/lifting of the weight.
Not to mention, taking longer on each set like this tends to help conserve stamina and is less likely to leave you panting and puffing after each set, and the 60-90 seconds rest should be enough to completely catch your breath with this approach.
The program is to be conducted 3 days per week, alternating workout A&B on non-consecutive days. For example:
Week One
Week Two
Click to enlarge:
The program below is heavily based on the novice phase of Ice Cream Fitness 5x5 program, however I've adapted it for hypertrophy instead of strength, using lighter weights for higher reps and opting for 3 sets per exercise with shorter rest periods between sets as well as increased time under tension.
At this early stage of your lifting career, it's still important to have a compound-dominant routine, as this allows for a good rate of all-over growth when combined with good nutrition.
Rest peroids:
60-90 seconds rest between sets. 90 for more demanding lifts like squats and deadlifts, whereas easier ones should be kept to 60 seconds rest.
Tempo:
<1 second lift (explode, but controlled). 3-4 seconds lowering.
Increased Time Under Tension = better mass gains.
NEVER underestimate the lowering/negative portion of each rep. Novices tend to just drop the weight down after each rep, but lowering the weight slowly and under control, maintaining tension all the way down will stimulate the muscle fibers even more than the contraction/lifting of the weight.
Not to mention, taking longer on each set like this tends to help conserve stamina and is less likely to leave you panting and puffing after each set, and the 60-90 seconds rest should be enough to completely catch your breath with this approach.
The program is to be conducted 3 days per week, alternating workout A&B on non-consecutive days. For example:
Week One
•
Day 1 - Workout A
•
Day 2 - Rest
•
Day 3 - Workout B
•
Day 4 - Rest
•
Day 5 - Workout A
•
Days 6 & 7 - Rest
Week Two
•
Day 1 - Workout B
•
Day 2 - Rest
•
Day 3 - Workout A
•
Day 4 - Rest
•
Day 5 - Workout B
•
Days 6 & 7 - Rest
Click to enlarge:
(edited 10 years ago)
Your friend..?
Why do people always feel the need to take a well established routine and modify it for the worse?
Why do people always feel the need to take a well established routine and modify it for the worse?
So you've taken a powerlifting routine and basically just changed the reps to make it what you call a hypertrophy routine?
Deadlifts shouldn't really figure on a hypertrophy routine. In fact, deadlifts aren't even the best option for hypertrophy. They're a strength-based exercise. It's why you rarely see hypertrophy people doing deadlifts at the gym (in fact you rarely see anyone doing deadlifts these days
).
Honestly, you should leave the routines alone. There's so much confusion in bodybuilding/powerlifting/fitness as it is. And part of that reason is the flavour of the month routines you see in fitness magazines. You're not a professional. You're not an expert. Leave things like this alone and go with what already works.
Deadlifts shouldn't really figure on a hypertrophy routine. In fact, deadlifts aren't even the best option for hypertrophy. They're a strength-based exercise. It's why you rarely see hypertrophy people doing deadlifts at the gym (in fact you rarely see anyone doing deadlifts these days
).Honestly, you should leave the routines alone. There's so much confusion in bodybuilding/powerlifting/fitness as it is. And part of that reason is the flavour of the month routines you see in fitness magazines. You're not a professional. You're not an expert. Leave things like this alone and go with what already works.
(edited 10 years ago)
I thought ICF was intended as a mix between strength and hypertrophy (Its basically SL5x5 with loads of accessory work), so theres no real need to make it more hypertrophy focused?
Original post by Appeal to reason
I thought ICF was intended as a mix between strength and hypertrophy (Its basically SL5x5 with loads of accessory work), so theres no real need to make it more hypertrophy focused?
He's made it less hypertrophy focused, which is the amusing thing.
If you've already milked beginner gains of SS I don't think Blaha's routine is going to do much for you.
Original post by Scoobiedoobiedo
He's made it less hypertrophy focused, which is the amusing thing.
How a 5x5, 3-5 minute rests between sets program better for hypertrophy than what I've laid out here? All I've done is taken the low reps and long rests i.e. strength training principles, and replaced them with hypertrophy training principles i.e. higher reps and shorter rests. Am I missing something?
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Genocidal
So you've taken a powerlifting routine and basically just changed the reps to make it what you call a hypertrophy routine?
Deadlifts shouldn't really figure on a hypertrophy routine. In fact, deadlifts aren't even the best option for hypertrophy. They're a strength-based exercise. It's why you rarely see hypertrophy people doing deadlifts at the gym (in fact you rarely see anyone doing deadlifts these days).
Honestly, you should leave the routines alone. There's so much confusion in bodybuilding/powerlifting/fitness as it is. And part of that reason is the flavour of the month routines you see in fitness magazines. You're not a professional. You're not an expert. Leave things like this alone and go with what already works.
Deadlifts shouldn't really figure on a hypertrophy routine. In fact, deadlifts aren't even the best option for hypertrophy. They're a strength-based exercise. It's why you rarely see hypertrophy people doing deadlifts at the gym (in fact you rarely see anyone doing deadlifts these days
).Honestly, you should leave the routines alone. There's so much confusion in bodybuilding/powerlifting/fitness as it is. And part of that reason is the flavour of the month routines you see in fitness magazines. You're not a professional. You're not an expert. Leave things like this alone and go with what already works.
Hence there only being one set of deadlifts
I just noticed that most of the beginner programs I've seen contain too much machine and isolation work. As you get more experienced you might opt for mor isolation work to help bring up specific muscles a bit more, but as a beginner looking to gain overall mass it's still important to stick with mostly compound movements.Original post by Cat Funt
How on earth is a 5x5, 3-5 minute rests between sets program better for hypertrophy than what I've laid out here?
Because heavy weights with maximum effort is going to stimulate the muscle a lot more; 3 sets of 8-12 is nowhere near enough volume. If you're going to decrease the weight you need to increase the volume, you've decreased the weight and decreased the volume which has left you with essentially nothing.
You're falling into this trap of thinking you need to do 8-12 reps to induce hypertrophy, which is wrong. If you are going to go down the path of 8-12 you need volume, which is why people use body part splits.
Original post by Cat Funt
Hence there only being one set of deadlifts I just noticed that most of the beginner programs I've seen contain too much machine and isolation work. As you get more experienced you might opt for mor isolation work to help bring up specific muscles a bit more, but as a beginner looking to gain overall mass it's still important to stick with mostly compound movements.
I just noticed that most of the beginner programs I've seen contain too much machine and isolation work. As you get more experienced you might opt for mor isolation work to help bring up specific muscles a bit more, but as a beginner looking to gain overall mass it's still important to stick with mostly compound movements.There should never be more than a single main set of deadlifts on any program. If you can do more than a single main set of deadlifts the weight is too light and you're wasting your time.
The best way to train for hypertrophy is to start by training for straight strength. Programmes like Starting Strength don't make beginners into intermediates. They merely get people started. They should be continuing to work on strength not hypertrophy for the first year or two.
You get bigger muscles by lifting bigger weights. Once you can lift large, heavy weights then you can concentrate on hypertrophy. This way people get results faster than limiting themselves to mere hypertrophy so early in their lifting careers.
Original post by Scoobiedoobiedo
Because heavy weights with maximum effort is going to stimulate the muscle a lot more; 3 sets of 8-12 is nowhere near enough volume. If you're going to decrease the weight you need to increase the volume, you've decreased the weight and decreased the volume which has left you with essentially nothing.
You're falling into this trap of thinking you need to do 8-12 reps to induce hypertrophy, which is wrong. If you are going to go down the path of 8-12 you need volume, which is why people use body part splits.
You're falling into this trap of thinking you need to do 8-12 reps to induce hypertrophy, which is wrong. If you are going to go down the path of 8-12 you need volume, which is why people use body part splits.
I hear you on the volume. However, a lot of people going from a basic strength program would likely struggle with a massive volume increase. As I'd recommended this directly after SS, it's supposed to act as a sort of bridge between SS and something higher in volume a few months down the line. Even then though, there's fair volume here; when training steroid-free, I certainly wouldn't recommend anything more than 30 sets per workout, even 30 is overkill for some people and might lead to overtraining if done consistently.
Original post by Genocidal
So you've taken a powerlifting routine and basically just changed the reps to make it what you call a hypertrophy routine?
Deadlifts shouldn't really figure on a hypertrophy routine. In fact, deadlifts aren't even the best option for hypertrophy. They're a strength-based exercise. It's why you rarely see hypertrophy people doing deadlifts at the gym (in fact you rarely see anyone doing deadlifts these days).
Honestly, you should leave the routines alone. There's so much confusion in bodybuilding/powerlifting/fitness as it is. And part of that reason is the flavour of the month routines you see in fitness magazines. You're not a professional. You're not an expert. Leave things like this alone and go with what already works.
Deadlifts shouldn't really figure on a hypertrophy routine. In fact, deadlifts aren't even the best option for hypertrophy. They're a strength-based exercise. It's why you rarely see hypertrophy people doing deadlifts at the gym (in fact you rarely see anyone doing deadlifts these days
).Honestly, you should leave the routines alone. There's so much confusion in bodybuilding/powerlifting/fitness as it is. And part of that reason is the flavour of the month routines you see in fitness magazines. You're not a professional. You're not an expert. Leave things like this alone and go with what already works.
This is flat-out untrue.
For natural (and especially novice) lifters, strength and size are directly correlated. You cannot gain strength without gaining some muscle-mass, and you cannot gain muscle without gaining strength. After all, that's what muscle is for. You acknowledge this in a later post so I don't know why you're saying the best strength exercise is poor for hypertrophy.
Most people looking for hypertrophy base their regimes on the really advanced blokes, which seems sensible at first glance, but what those blokes do is completely inappropriate for the novice and intermediate lifter. It was certainly not how any of them trained when they were a novice. Then you have the huge, juiced guys who are even worse role-models as they have completely cheated their body-chemistry.
My advice to the OP is keep up the strength work. Keep low to intermediate reps (3-8) on big compound exercises, eat well and ensure you keep getting measurably stronger size will come much more surely than if you start messing around with bull**** hypertrophy programmes.
Original post by Rinsed
This is flat-out untrue.
For natural (and especially novice) lifters, strength and size are directly correlated. You cannot gain strength without gaining some muscle-mass, and you cannot gain muscle without gaining strength. After all, that's what muscle is for. You acknowledge this in a later post so I don't know why you're saying the best strength exercise is poor for hypertrophy.
Most people looking for hypertrophy base their regimes on the really advanced blokes, which seems sensible at first glance, but what those blokes do is completely inappropriate for the novice and intermediate lifter. It was certainly not how any of them trained when they were a novice. Then you have the huge, juiced guys who are even worse role-models as they have completely cheated their body-chemistry.
My advice to the OP is keep up the strength work. Keep low to intermediate reps (3-8) on big compound exercises, eat well and ensure you keep getting measurably stronger size will come much more surely than if you start messing around with bull**** hypertrophy programmes.
For natural (and especially novice) lifters, strength and size are directly correlated. You cannot gain strength without gaining some muscle-mass, and you cannot gain muscle without gaining strength. After all, that's what muscle is for. You acknowledge this in a later post so I don't know why you're saying the best strength exercise is poor for hypertrophy.
Most people looking for hypertrophy base their regimes on the really advanced blokes, which seems sensible at first glance, but what those blokes do is completely inappropriate for the novice and intermediate lifter. It was certainly not how any of them trained when they were a novice. Then you have the huge, juiced guys who are even worse role-models as they have completely cheated their body-chemistry.
My advice to the OP is keep up the strength work. Keep low to intermediate reps (3-8) on big compound exercises, eat well and ensure you keep getting measurably stronger size will come much more surely than if you start messing around with bull**** hypertrophy programmes.
What?
Bad routine, you can put a dress on a dog, but its still something that will lick its own balls.
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Original post by Nvmthename
Bad routine, you can put a dress on a dog, but its still something that will lick its own balls.
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Stealing this one mate.
Original post by Genocidal
So you've taken a powerlifting routine.
It's not a powerlifting routine man. I don't know how the creator could make that any more obvious.
(edited 10 years ago)
If one wants mass / hypertrophy - i'd advise them to nail their diet.
Original post by Rinsed
This is flat-out untrue.
For natural (and especially novice) lifters, strength and size are directly correlated. You cannot gain strength without gaining some muscle-mass, and you cannot gain muscle without gaining strength. After all, that's what muscle is for. You acknowledge this in a later post so I don't know why you're saying the best strength exercise is poor for hypertrophy.
Most people looking for hypertrophy base their regimes on the really advanced blokes, which seems sensible at first glance, but what those blokes do is completely inappropriate for the novice and intermediate lifter. It was certainly not how any of them trained when they were a novice. Then you have the huge, juiced guys who are even worse role-models as they have completely cheated their body-chemistry.
My advice to the OP is keep up the strength work. Keep low to intermediate reps (3-8) on big compound exercises, eat well and ensure you keep getting measurably stronger size will come much more surely than if you start messing around with bull**** hypertrophy programmes.
For natural (and especially novice) lifters, strength and size are directly correlated. You cannot gain strength without gaining some muscle-mass, and you cannot gain muscle without gaining strength. After all, that's what muscle is for. You acknowledge this in a later post so I don't know why you're saying the best strength exercise is poor for hypertrophy.
Most people looking for hypertrophy base their regimes on the really advanced blokes, which seems sensible at first glance, but what those blokes do is completely inappropriate for the novice and intermediate lifter. It was certainly not how any of them trained when they were a novice. Then you have the huge, juiced guys who are even worse role-models as they have completely cheated their body-chemistry.
My advice to the OP is keep up the strength work. Keep low to intermediate reps (3-8) on big compound exercises, eat well and ensure you keep getting measurably stronger size will come much more surely than if you start messing around with bull**** hypertrophy programmes.
Some good advice here. I haven't done any strength training for quite some time, mind, and I'm getting good gains, but I'm past the stage of needing to gain strength. The general consensus between coaches who specialise in hypertrophy is, as long as you keep adding weight to the bar and progressing, you'll keep adding weight to your body.
I fully agree with what you said about taking advice from huge bodybuilders on juice. There are of course exceptions, like Dorian Yates who has studied the science behind bodybuilding for decades. But the truth is, if you're on juice, you'll respond to most sorts of resistance training, as long as you train hard. So what works for them won't necessarily work for nattys.
The thought of doing high weight squats for 12 reps with a maximum of 90 sec rest is ****ing scary. Could be just me though.
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Original post by 419
The thought of doing high weight squats for 12 reps with a maximum of 90 sec rest is ****ing scary. Could be just me though.
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You won't do it. You'll drop significant reps over the sets.
Never mind that lowering the rest doesn't do anything apart from tire you out and decrease your overall workout time.
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