Young people 'feel they have nothing to live for' study claims.
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Original post by SilverstarDJ
I've taken every opportunity to get to where I am now. I've worked bloody hard to get where I am now and have myself to thank for this, but when I graduate I am going to have a job with more chance of progression, more job security and a higher wage then either of my parents. All thanks to being able to go to uni, something I wouldn't be able to do if governments hadn't given my free education prior to uni and a loan for my degree.
I don't think uni is for everyone, and a lot of degrees don't lead directly to a job, especially in the arts & humanities (quite sadly for those that have a particular skill in those areas). It's not a golden ticket for most, but for some it can open doors.
As for lacking "real life experience" then all you need to do is get a job. Or volunteer. I've secured quite a few part time jobs from volunteering - I've had so many part time job offers I couldn't take them all. All because I work hard, as hard as a paid employee, only to expect nothing in return. By the time I finish my degree I will have over a year of relevant work experience to the area I want to work in, not including some paid positions. I've had friends who secured full time, permanent positions from student placements or volunteering whilst at uni. And, yet, on the other hand I know students who have NEVER worked before, or during uni, and wonder why they can't get a job after graduation. A degree is not enough - some students expectations are too high in the regard if they thing a degree by itself will land them straight into a career.
I have also managed to set my own small scale, but profitable business and have taught myself skills that made my employable as a web designer since the age of 16. The government provided me with library books to teach myself this skill and all that I needed was motivation to make myself employable.
I've taken every opportunity to get to where I am now. I've worked bloody hard to get where I am now and have myself to thank for this, but when I graduate I am going to have a job with more chance of progression, more job security and a higher wage then either of my parents. All thanks to being able to go to uni, something I wouldn't be able to do if governments hadn't given my free education prior to uni and a loan for my degree.
I don't think uni is for everyone, and a lot of degrees don't lead directly to a job, especially in the arts & humanities (quite sadly for those that have a particular skill in those areas). It's not a golden ticket for most, but for some it can open doors.
As for lacking "real life experience" then all you need to do is get a job. Or volunteer. I've secured quite a few part time jobs from volunteering - I've had so many part time job offers I couldn't take them all. All because I work hard, as hard as a paid employee, only to expect nothing in return. By the time I finish my degree I will have over a year of relevant work experience to the area I want to work in, not including some paid positions. I've had friends who secured full time, permanent positions from student placements or volunteering whilst at uni. And, yet, on the other hand I know students who have NEVER worked before, or during uni, and wonder why they can't get a job after graduation. A degree is not enough - some students expectations are too high in the regard if they thing a degree by itself will land them straight into a career.
I have also managed to set my own small scale, but profitable business and have taught myself skills that made my employable as a web designer since the age of 16. The government provided me with library books to teach myself this skill and all that I needed was motivation to make myself employable.
Original post by Drewski
Therein lies, to me, at least part of the problem. People expect things to be given to them. Either just because they've got x from university or y experience. They suffer from having been spoonfed information and results and the next step for far too long, removing the need to find anything out for themselves.
There are loads of opportunities out there. Sure, some are sideways, some are abstract and some might not lead directly to anything but can open doors in other ways. But you've got to put yourself out there to find them and use them. Too many people don't know how to/are unwilling to. And then they suffer.
There are loads of opportunities out there. Sure, some are sideways, some are abstract and some might not lead directly to anything but can open doors in other ways. But you've got to put yourself out there to find them and use them. Too many people don't know how to/are unwilling to. And then they suffer.
I've been volunteering in a school for 8 years, I'm volunteering with a society exec, I've been a part of St John's Ambulance, helped at a local cafeteria. I have good grades and am at university. The last time I applied for a job I was told that I didn't have the right experience. It was a job as a cleaner. I have no idea of superiority and would do whatever job if allowed. I fail to see how I have been unwilling.
I left Uni of Oxford with a First in PPE just over three years ago and went into a job with a big multinational and a great salary. However, I left this recently to start up my own business: not because I felt I would earn more money from doing this, but because I feel it gives me the life challenge I need and the chance to do something that benefits other people. I now run a website that collects and publishes student reviews of their landlords/letting agents to expose landlords that are exploiting their tenants, and to recognise those doing a good job.
There are 2 things I hope this might show:
1) That education, though a very beneficial thing, is not the be all and end all. I left my job (gained through my degree) as I was unfulfilled to do something which requires no formal education: just some common sense. When you run your own company, having a PhD means no more than leaving school at 16
2) That not having someone offer you a job does not necessitate going onto benefits. It's amazingly easy in the UK to start your own business and the great thing about social security is that, if you try and fail to run your own company, you will still be eligible for unemployment benefits and can try to start another company doing something else until you succeed. I have little sympathy for those who spend hours and hours going for jobs: that kind of passion and creativity, if channeled into their own business could create a job: you don't always have to be offered one doing something you may not enjoy anyway.
I am poorer than I've ever been post-uni, but happier too. Plus, I definitely feel I have something to live for: making the rental market better for students and others is something I passionate about and, even if it doesn't succeed, I will always feel glad I tried to achieve.
There are 2 things I hope this might show:
1) That education, though a very beneficial thing, is not the be all and end all. I left my job (gained through my degree) as I was unfulfilled to do something which requires no formal education: just some common sense. When you run your own company, having a PhD means no more than leaving school at 16
2) That not having someone offer you a job does not necessitate going onto benefits. It's amazingly easy in the UK to start your own business and the great thing about social security is that, if you try and fail to run your own company, you will still be eligible for unemployment benefits and can try to start another company doing something else until you succeed. I have little sympathy for those who spend hours and hours going for jobs: that kind of passion and creativity, if channeled into their own business could create a job: you don't always have to be offered one doing something you may not enjoy anyway.
I am poorer than I've ever been post-uni, but happier too. Plus, I definitely feel I have something to live for: making the rental market better for students and others is something I passionate about and, even if it doesn't succeed, I will always feel glad I tried to achieve.
Original post by PythianLegume
Well, I think you're talking about different things. Tyrion seems to be talking about clinical depression, whereas Plainview is talking about the sense of hopelessness from not having opportunities described in the article. While there is likely overlap, it ultimately depends on whether the people are suffering from clinical depression, or merely presenting a rational response to a ****ty situation.
Definitely.
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
True, however I don't think not having opportunities is enough to make you feel suicidal, which is what the article seems to be saying. I get annoyed whenever people say things like that about depression, I had "everything" growing up and still ended up with it. My opinion is the lack of opportunities might make it worse, but it doesn't cause it
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
I disagree. None of thoses things protect from depression.
The article suggests that this sort of depression is on the increase. If it strikes randomly without bearing on material possessions or anything like that, then why is there such an increase? I do not believe that most of these young people suffer from clinical depression. I think in many cases it is simply a feeling of a lack of direction and a lack of opportunities. This undoubtedly results from a lack of experiences. Kids don't read any more. They play too many videogames. They aren't constructive with their time. Parents give their kids an easy way out (not always their fault, given that this sort of technology is marketed as making our lives easier and more comfortable), and as a result they don't develop properly. Tell me that if more parents encouraged their kids to take up constructive hobbies and persevere in sports teams then the overall mood of the young population wouldn't improve.
Original post by Plainview
Definitely.
The article suggests that this sort of depression is on the increase. If it strikes randomly without bearing on material possessions or anything like that, then why is there such an increase? I do not believe that most of these young people suffer from clinical depression. I think in many cases it is simply a feeling of a lack of direction and a lack of opportunities. This undoubtedly results from a lack of experiences. Kids don't read any more. They play too many videogames. They aren't constructive with their time. Parents give their kids an easy way out (not always their fault, given that this sort of technology is marketed as making our lives easier and more comfortable), and as a result they don't develop properly. Tell me that if more parents encouraged their kids to take up constructive hobbies and persevere in sports teams then the overall mood of the young population wouldn't improve.
The article suggests that this sort of depression is on the increase. If it strikes randomly without bearing on material possessions or anything like that, then why is there such an increase? I do not believe that most of these young people suffer from clinical depression. I think in many cases it is simply a feeling of a lack of direction and a lack of opportunities. This undoubtedly results from a lack of experiences. Kids don't read any more. They play too many videogames. They aren't constructive with their time. Parents give their kids an easy way out (not always their fault, given that this sort of technology is marketed as making our lives easier and more comfortable), and as a result they don't develop properly. Tell me that if more parents encouraged their kids to take up constructive hobbies and persevere in sports teams then the overall mood of the young population wouldn't improve.
Why the fixation on sports teams?
Why an increase? More people talking about it, more diagnosis, schools not teaching people how to reach their potential. I agree with what you say can make it worse, but honestly, it is not the cause.
Original post by maskofsanity
"what I know most surely about morality and the duty of man I owe to sport" —Camus
Sport is great for some people. For me it was horrible. I'm severely dyslexic with ADHD, and my coordination is ****ty as a result. Bullying in the changing rooms, getting picked last for everything, getting laughed at by everyone when I couldn't catch the ball, people deliberately throwing things at my face...yeah that really helps with people's depression
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
Why the fixation on sports teams?
Why an increase? More people talking about it, more diagnosis, schools not teaching people how to reach their potential. I agree with what you say can make it worse, but honestly, it is not the cause.
Why an increase? More people talking about it, more diagnosis, schools not teaching people how to reach their potential. I agree with what you say can make it worse, but honestly, it is not the cause.
Original post by maskofsanity
Sports get kids exercising, encourage them to socialise, teach them the value of competition, teach them to lose and to handle loss (absolutely essential), teach them the value of practice, teach them the value of responsibility, teach them the value of reward for genuine endeavour, give them goals to aim for (har har) – I could go on. Obviously it's not applicable to everyone (ie the disabled, although just look at the paralympics), but it's a good example of a traditional aspect of parenting that has fallen by the wayside and undoubtedly contributed to kids feeling they have a lack of direction. It's also other things like travel, and more intellectually stimulating entertainment. Kids aren't just going to do these things themselves; they often need a financial and motivational push from parents who should know better. maskofsanity said it much more concisely and effectively above.
Yes more people talking about it leads to more diagnoses, but more people talking about it – especially on the internet – also encourages kids to find similar things wrong with themselves. It's the same reason self-diagnosis websites are so dangerous. 'Depression' becomes a kind of badge for disenchanted young people (of which there are millions, every generation) to use as identification. The internet (I'm looking at websites like tumblr in particular, although it could be any social media) can often seem like a sort of self-help AA-style recovery centre, but it can become a sort of walled garden from which escape becomes increasingly difficult. I have been in a position like this and more or less come out the other side.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by MatureStudent36
On average we work less than previous generations. We can only work 48 hours tops. A lot less than previous generations.
I think fir many its a lack of purpose and a mismatch between expectations and reality.
I think fir many its a lack of purpose and a mismatch between expectations and reality.
Most people with private organisation sign out of the WTD, for obvious efficiency reasons. If you have an oversubscribed job with a fixed annual salary it would be daft for any emlpyer not to make that a stipulation of the contract, after all it's free labour.
Original post by Drewski
You can. But that's life. Some things work and some things don't. Too many are afraid of that because they've been too sheltered. They don't like/want risk. You can't -and shouldn't- avoid that part of human life.
Trying to protect yourself from hard decisions by making no decisions is just plain moronic, though.
Trying to protect yourself from hard decisions by making no decisions is just plain moronic, though.
Agreed, people in the UK have no idea how lucky they really are and number of opportunities they have available to them. Try living in a country plagued by war, poverty, social corruption and injustice. More than 2.8 billion people live on less than the equivalent of $2/day.
It's better to try and fail then to sit around and whine about how life is unfair.
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
True, however I don't think not having opportunities is enough to make you feel suicidal, which is what the article seems to be saying. I get annoyed whenever people say things like that about depression, I had "everything" growing up and still ended up with it. My opinion is the lack of opportunities might make it worse, but it doesn't cause it
You need to appreciate that you can't generalize your own personal experience with depression to every single person suffering with the condition. Depression is very complicated mental health problem with a multitude of potential causes and every case is different The bottom line is, a lot of depression is circumstantial i.e. the result of a lack of opportunities (which can leads to feelings of loss of control and hopelessness), death of a loved one, poor social life, financial problems etc. The 'cause' of depression is dependent on the individual. There is also a lot of conflicting research about how chemical imbalances affect depression, it's unknown whether low serotonin causes depression or is merely one of the effects of having the condition.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Maid Marian
'Study claims'?? Like that isn't definite?
Of course there is nothing to live for. We're all performing dogs, trapped in this repetitive life of expectations and pressures and exhaustion and humiliation. We're just cogs in a machine. We have to sign our lives away to society, and then we die at the end of it.
No wonder every particle in my body is screaming and fighting against it!
Of course there is nothing to live for. We're all performing dogs, trapped in this repetitive life of expectations and pressures and exhaustion and humiliation. We're just cogs in a machine. We have to sign our lives away to society, and then we die at the end of it.
No wonder every particle in my body is screaming and fighting against it!
When did you become an optimist
Original post by Machop
You need to appreciate that you can't generalize your own personal experience with depression to every single person suffering with the condition. Depression is very complicated mental health problem with a multitude of potential causes and every case is different The bottom line is, a lot of depression is circumstantial i.e. the result of a lack of opportunities (which can leads to feelings of loss of control and hopelessness), death of a loved one, poor social life, financial problems etc. The 'cause' of depression is dependent on the individual. There is also a lot of conflicting research about how chemical imbalances affect depression, it's unknown whether low serotonin causes depression or is merely of the effects of having the condition.
I'm kind of gonna side with Tyrion here, clinical depression is rarely caused by a lack of hope or opportunities, more often than not it's a biological cause not an environmental.
Original post by james1211
I'm kind of gonna side with Tyrion here, clinical depression is rarely caused by a lack of hope or opportunities, more often than not it's a biological cause not an environmental.
That's just your opinion and quite simply isn't actually true. Go look at any research, the causes are still unknown and vary between individuals so you can't make generalizations like you have. Often it does have a biological basis but at the same environmental triggers must be present. Besides I don't think the people mentioned in the article are all suffering clinical depression.
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Depression/Pages/Causes.aspx
Original post by Machop
That's just your opinion and quite simply isn't actually true. Go look at any research, the causes are still unknown and vary between individuals so you can't make generalizations like you have. Often it does have a biological basis but at the same environmental triggers must be present. Besides I don't think the people mentioned in the article are all suffering clinical depression.
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Depression/Pages/Causes.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Depression/Pages/Causes.aspx
Whatever, suggesting this problem is because of their parents is frankly ridiculous, depression or not. It's a result of a generation of selfish adults who aren't prepared to train our generation to do the jobs they want us to do to line their pockets, and instead expecting us to pay our way into a job or watch it be given to eastern europeans who will do it for a disgustingly low wage.
Original post by james1211
Whatever, suggesting this problem is because of their parents is frankly ridiculous, depression or not. It's a result of a generation of selfish adults who aren't prepared to train our generation to do the jobs they want us to do to line their pockets, and instead expecting us to pay our way into a job or watch it be given to eastern europeans who will do it for a disgustingly low wage.
Lol, stop moaning and acting like a victim. This type of mentality is only detrimental. You are not some impoverished child with no access to education living in a third world country ravaged by war. Stop waiting for the government to spoon feed you, you have the chance to go to university, access to the internet, books, free courses that are available, go and train yourself. You could start a business, go and work or study abroad etc, if you think it's so bad nothing is stopping you from going to another country. How the **** is whining on the internet going to benefit you in any way?
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
True, however I don't think not having opportunities is enough to make you feel suicidal, which is what the article seems to be saying. I get annoyed whenever people say things like that about depression, I had "everything" growing up and still ended up with it. My opinion is the lack of opportunities might make it worse, but it doesn't cause it
What is the cause?
You're all worthless and you know it. Aspire for fame and loads of money, and then go on to have a family, instead of just having a family early and hoping your child will do better than you.
Edit - Also I should say that do something that makes you happy instead of a boring 9 to 5, unless that's what you want. Nothing will ever be handed to you, you have to work for it.
Edit - Also I should say that do something that makes you happy instead of a boring 9 to 5, unless that's what you want. Nothing will ever be handed to you, you have to work for it.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Machop
Lol, stop moaning and acting like a victim. This type of mentality is only detrimental. You are not some impoverished child with no access to education living in a third world country ravaged by war. Stop waiting for the government to spoon feed you, you have the chance to go to university, access to the internet, books, free courses that are available, go and train yourself. You could start a business, go and work or study abroad etc, if you think it's so bad nothing is stopping you from going to another country. How the **** is whining on the internet going to benefit you in any way?
Im not whining, I have a degree in my field of choice and a full time job in the industry I want, but theres a lot of people that don't have access to good careers through no fault of their own. Im very lucky to be where i am and cant help feel like it was partly down to luck.
Slightly related but one of my favourite talks from Alain de Botton.
If you have ~17 minutes, I encourage you to watch / listen.
If you have ~17 minutes, I encourage you to watch / listen.
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