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How are people with 4A*s getting rejected?
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Original post by Fullofsurprises
It isn't particularly likely they would be rejected pre-interview, what subject(s) are you talking about and was this specifically Oxford or Cambridge?
Pretty much always a case at my school for science-based subjects.
Original post by natninja
Note thread in Oxbridge forum, as an Oxford student, I can assure you that my tutors don't really care at all about extra-curricular activities... For my subject I know someone who applied at the same time as me with 15A*s and 6As at AS level who then went on to get 5A*s and 1A at A2 who didn't even get an interview because she failed the aptitude test - and though the content in the aptitude test is really not hard, the questions are designed in such a way that if you don't do that naturally you will not do well. The tutors are interested in high achievers with high academic potential with the stress of potential - it's no good to have 4A*s at A-level if that is the limit of what you can achieve.
BUT the above is not me saying that doing extra-curriculars is a bad thing! It's good to do them and all other things being equal, having the same academic achievements as someone else WHILE still doing extra-curricular stuff shows that you are probably more academically gifted or can manage time better etc. Though extra-curriculars are no substitute for sub-par academics.
BUT the above is not me saying that doing extra-curriculars is a bad thing! It's good to do them and all other things being equal, having the same academic achievements as someone else WHILE still doing extra-curricular stuff shows that you are probably more academically gifted or can manage time better etc. Though extra-curriculars are no substitute for sub-par academics.
So is she only good for remembering/learning the info off by heart?
Original post by SoftPunch
Pretty much always a case at my school for science-based subjects.
Oh, OK, this is after taking assessment tests?
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Oh, OK, this is after taking assessment tests?
Before haha
What did you study at Oxford?
Original post by SoftPunch
So is she only good for remembering/learning the info off by heart?
Nope, she is capable of applying it too... though she got into Durham and isn't doing very well at all...
Original post by james22
Oxbridge repeated say that (apart from subjects like medicine where personal statement always matters), they only care about how academic you are.
No not necessarily. My tutor was always scathing in saying what he thought of personal statements. I think they do consider non-academic factors to an extent, primarily at interview where everyone can expect ethics questions at least, but not nearly as much as other unis for sure.
Original post by SoftPunch
Before haha What did you study at Oxford?
What did you study at Oxford?I'm trying to think of a subject that does its admissions test after giving out interviews. I don't think there is one.
Oxford interview less applicants than Cambridge as their admissions tests are pre interview while at Cambridge they are generally on the day. So they could flunk the admissions test or get low UMS (even if they get an A* they may have lower than the average UMS for a successful applicant). Also they don't really care if you have more than 3 A2s because many people don't have the opportunity to do more than 3 or 4, also the extra ones would probably be in less relevant subjects.
So no it's not extra curricular things such as DofE or playing an instrument that will increase your chances, as well as a great academic profile do things related to your subject. Demonstrate your understanding of the subject and show that you've done extra research and reading and are able to comment critically on things. Your personal statement should show that you think 'outside the box' as it were and don't just memorise A level specifications. Your ability to think about problems in this way is further tested at interview.
So no it's not extra curricular things such as DofE or playing an instrument that will increase your chances, as well as a great academic profile do things related to your subject. Demonstrate your understanding of the subject and show that you've done extra research and reading and are able to comment critically on things. Your personal statement should show that you think 'outside the box' as it were and don't just memorise A level specifications. Your ability to think about problems in this way is further tested at interview.
Original post by nexttime
No not necessarily. My tutor was always scathing in saying what he thought of personal statements. I think they do consider non-academic factors to an extent, primarily at interview where everyone can expect ethics questions at least, but not nearly as much as other unis for sure.
I'm trying to think of a subject that does its admissions test after giving out interviews. I don't think there is one.
I'm trying to think of a subject that does its admissions test after giving out interviews. I don't think there is one.
Huh? Yeah, can't think of one either.
I've had a similar situation happen to a friend of my recently, who's A-Levels were brilliant and has been rejected several times by Oxbridge (all D1s and A*s). They were all post-interview, however. I find it unusual that someone would be rejected pre-interview with grades like that... the only thing I can suggest is that they request feedback on exactly where they went wrong. I know of someone that got rejected pre-interview for Cambs but she had AACC.
Regarding extra-curriculars, other than subject related activity, I don't think they care. In fact, my Director of Studies has openly asked me (begged me) not to do drama or rowing - or any other sport that requires a lot of time and application. Oxbridge didn't get their reputation by having students with lots of extra curricular activities; it's their long history of academic excellence and teaching that give them their reputation.
If you're on track to get AAA it's really not going to make a difference whether or not you're a grade 8 on the piano if they have to pick between you and someone else that is on track for the required A*AA but don't happen to have a Grade 8. If you have experience relevant to your course i.e applying for History: worked in a museum, that could go in your favour but people are very naive and misinformed to think either a) having all these extra curricular's means a candidate will be at a much better advantage than those without them or b) not having a long list of extra curricular's will be a real blow to someone's application - not everyone has the same opportunities as others do, playing an instrument being one of them (can be very expensive).
Don't pick up loads of ECs just for the sake of it to impress interviewers would be my advice. Do activities relevant to your subject and that will enrich your knowledge and further your practical experience of the subject.
That's my advice anyway. I'm sure there's typo's everywhere in this but ah well
Regarding extra-curriculars, other than subject related activity, I don't think they care. In fact, my Director of Studies has openly asked me (begged me) not to do drama or rowing - or any other sport that requires a lot of time and application. Oxbridge didn't get their reputation by having students with lots of extra curricular activities; it's their long history of academic excellence and teaching that give them their reputation.
If you're on track to get AAA it's really not going to make a difference whether or not you're a grade 8 on the piano if they have to pick between you and someone else that is on track for the required A*AA but don't happen to have a Grade 8. If you have experience relevant to your course i.e applying for History: worked in a museum, that could go in your favour but people are very naive and misinformed to think either a) having all these extra curricular's means a candidate will be at a much better advantage than those without them or b) not having a long list of extra curricular's will be a real blow to someone's application - not everyone has the same opportunities as others do, playing an instrument being one of them (can be very expensive).
Don't pick up loads of ECs just for the sake of it to impress interviewers would be my advice. Do activities relevant to your subject and that will enrich your knowledge and further your practical experience of the subject.
That's my advice anyway. I'm sure there's typo's everywhere in this but ah well
Look at me. I got rejected with 94.37% UMS average across my five AS grades. 
I probably got rejected due to my poor interview performances, awful GCSE grades (most of them were below A) and my MAT admissions test.
I also did not shake hands in some interviews, is that bad? This may have implied that I was not confident.
So, since they have so many talented applicants and strictly very few places, they will have to reject me.
Oxbridge are top universities, so they will have too many strong candidates and therefore many strong candidates will undoubtly get rejected.
Besides, some A-levels are more "respected" and relevant than others depending on what course you are taking. For instance, many universities wouldn't value an A* in Applied ICT higher than an B in Further Maths if you're taking Computer Science. So it depends.
Also, someone in my school who got 11A*s & 1A in GCSE in addition to 4As & 1C at AS but got rejected without an interview for a course that had a 9% acceptance rate (2012 statistics).
I probably got rejected due to my poor interview performances, awful GCSE grades (most of them were below A) and my MAT admissions test.
I also did not shake hands in some interviews, is that bad? This may have implied that I was not confident.
So, since they have so many talented applicants and strictly very few places, they will have to reject me.
Oxbridge are top universities, so they will have too many strong candidates and therefore many strong candidates will undoubtly get rejected.
Besides, some A-levels are more "respected" and relevant than others depending on what course you are taking. For instance, many universities wouldn't value an A* in Applied ICT higher than an B in Further Maths if you're taking Computer Science. So it depends.
Also, someone in my school who got 11A*s & 1A in GCSE in addition to 4As & 1C at AS but got rejected without an interview for a course that had a 9% acceptance rate (2012 statistics).
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Sayonara
Look at me. I got rejected with 94.37% UMS average across my five AS grades.
I probably got rejected due to my poor interview performances, awful GCSE grades (most of them were below A) and my MAT admissions test.
I also did not shake hands in some interviews, is that bad? This may have implied that I was not confident.
So, since they have so many talented applicants and strictly very few places, they will have to reject me.
Oxbridge are top universities, so they will have too many strong candidates and therefore many strong candidates will undoubtly get rejected.
Besides, some A-levels are more "respected" and relevant than others depending on what course you are taking. For instance, many universities wouldn't value an A* in Applied ICT higher than an B in Further Maths if you're taking Computer Science. So it depends.
Also, someone in my school who got 11A*s & 1A in GCSE in addition to 4As & 1C at AS but got rejected without an interview for a course that had a 9% acceptance rate (2012 statistics).
I probably got rejected due to my poor interview performances, awful GCSE grades (most of them were below A) and my MAT admissions test.
I also did not shake hands in some interviews, is that bad? This may have implied that I was not confident.
So, since they have so many talented applicants and strictly very few places, they will have to reject me.
Oxbridge are top universities, so they will have too many strong candidates and therefore many strong candidates will undoubtly get rejected.
Besides, some A-levels are more "respected" and relevant than others depending on what course you are taking. For instance, many universities wouldn't value an A* in Applied ICT higher than an B in Further Maths if you're taking Computer Science. So it depends.
Also, someone in my school who got 11A*s & 1A in GCSE in addition to 4As & 1C at AS but got rejected without an interview for a course that had a 9% acceptance rate (2012 statistics).
I doubt they'd reject you for not shaking their hand although first impressions do count.
Original post by Frannoooooooo
I've seen applicants with 10+ A*s, and 4 A*s at A level get rejected without an interview yet people with say 3 As get an interview? Can someone explain? Would their personal statement possibly be responsible for this?..
It's extremely unlikely it's down to the personal statement.
Taking Computer Science as an example: when we decide who to shortlist for interview we look at everything we know about a candidate. But performance in the MAT test is the most important thing here. Great performance at GCSE or A Levels in a range of subjects doesn't necessarily equate to doing well in the test. (And not everyones A Levels will be in particularly relevant subjects.)
Most students will be coming in with relatively similar A Level grades, so they aren't normally a particularly helpful way of distinguishing between candidates. Especially when predicted grades are involved.
We want students to have a genuine interest in the subject they are applying to. But the personal statement isn't as important to us as many universities, who don't for example interview or test.
Roughly speaking when deciding who to interview, we draw a line in the sand based on MAT marks Students around that line are looked at particularly carefully. A student who perhaps didn't get amazing GCSE scores, but when compared to their schools results, was way ahead, might well be pulled above the line. Or someone with important contextual information. No matter how great a candidates GCSEs/A Levels, if they really bomb the test (without extenuating circumstances) they won't be interviewed.
But a great MAT mark isn't a guarantee of a place. The interviews are really important too. Some students look great on paper, but once they're in an interview it becomes clear that the tutorial system isn't going to be a teaching style that suits them. On the flip side, sometimes someone has a bad day on the test, and but when they come to interview they perform really well. Some people make our lives easy by performing really well in everything - those decisions are easy. But many others don't. That's where we really have to pay attention. The tutors are looking to get a fair idea of what a candidate can do, taking into account all of the information they have about that person.
Not shaking hands, turning up to your interview in a tutu and fairy wings, or having climbed Everest as part of your D of E (ie something irrelevant to the subject) isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference.
Competition is tough, and sadly we have to turn away many talented candidates every year. Say for example we have 10 places available, the 11th candidate might be amazing, but if there isn't a place for them we simply can't let them in. (There are very strict caps on the number of undergraduates the university can take.)
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by BC17
I assumed that once an interview was given out after basing it on the performance of the aptitude test- regardless score of being high or low- the interview scoring starts on a clean slate?
No.
At Oxford it remains a holistic process. At Cambridge it is more mechanistic, but scores from aptitude tests count in the final decision.
Original post by BC17
I assumed that once an interview was given out after basing it on the performance of the aptitude test- regardless score of being high or low- the interview scoring starts on a clean slate?
No. At both universities they look at the whole record. This is more so at Cambridge where a higher proportion are interviewed. (Although the difference is not as much as it used to be-many courses at both are now interviewing about 80%.)
A shocking interview can result in a pooled application for a good paper candidate, an outstanding interview can result in an offer for a poor on paper candidate, especially with a disadvantaged educational background. But the final assessment includes all the paper application, reference, pre-test and interview scores at Cambridge.
Both universities have a way of ranking the whole field. Cambridge use mostly UMS but include BMAT & GCSE for medicine. Oxford rank but include GCSEs and pre-tests. Neither university operate a straight cut off based on ranking alone, either for interviews or offers.
Most tutors say that on the whole good paper candidates interview well and there are few surprises amongst candidates who are weaker on paper. However you don't have to be on TSR for long to see that people do get offers even when they have UMS & GCSE results that are significantly lower than average.
Original post by Sayonara
Look at me. I got rejected with 94.37% UMS average across my five AS grades.
I probably got rejected due to my poor interview performances, awful GCSE grades (most of them were below A) and my MAT admissions test.
I also did not shake hands in some interviews, is that bad? This may have implied that I was not confident.
So, since they have so many talented applicants and strictly very few places, they will have to reject me.
Oxbridge are top universities, so they will have too many strong candidates and therefore many strong candidates will undoubtly get rejected.
Besides, some A-levels are more "respected" and relevant than others depending on what course you are taking. For instance, many universities wouldn't value an A* in Applied ICT higher than an B in Further Maths if you're taking Computer Science. So it depends.
Also, someone in my school who got 11A*s & 1A in GCSE in addition to 4As & 1C at AS but got rejected without an interview for a course that had a 9% acceptance rate (2012 statistics).
I probably got rejected due to my poor interview performances, awful GCSE grades (most of them were below A) and my MAT admissions test.
I also did not shake hands in some interviews, is that bad? This may have implied that I was not confident.
So, since they have so many talented applicants and strictly very few places, they will have to reject me.
Oxbridge are top universities, so they will have too many strong candidates and therefore many strong candidates will undoubtly get rejected.
Besides, some A-levels are more "respected" and relevant than others depending on what course you are taking. For instance, many universities wouldn't value an A* in Applied ICT higher than an B in Further Maths if you're taking Computer Science. So it depends.
Also, someone in my school who got 11A*s & 1A in GCSE in addition to 4As & 1C at AS but got rejected without an interview for a course that had a 9% acceptance rate (2012 statistics).
1) Oxford don't look at UMS
2) They place significant emphasis on admissions tests and GCSEs
3) Your application seemed stronger for Cambridge
Original post by Frannoooooooo
I've seen applicants with 10+ A*s, and 4 A*s at A level get rejected without an interview yet people with say 3 As get an interview? Can someone explain? Would their personal statement possibly be responsible for this?..
You surely must know it is about more than grades.
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