Can any engineering students answer these questions for me?
I have applied and been offered to do mechanical engineering at universities in the uk (2014 entry) and have some questions:
Is there any good reading for the course that anyone can recommend (or link me to a thread)?
Where is stats used in engineering, I have noticed it in the specs and I hate stats but love maths like most I guess.
Leading onto, how much maths is there? And to what level? I see maths in the first and sometimes second years. Is it then all applied throughout everything?
Will all this numeracy stuff be much use in the workplace or is it just to gain understanding through the course as I presume mostly programs do these calculations to be economical?
How are you coping?
Do/Did you enjoy it?
What do you want to do now?
Thanks
Posted from TSR Mobile
Is there any good reading for the course that anyone can recommend (or link me to a thread)?
Where is stats used in engineering, I have noticed it in the specs and I hate stats but love maths like most I guess.
Leading onto, how much maths is there? And to what level? I see maths in the first and sometimes second years. Is it then all applied throughout everything?
Will all this numeracy stuff be much use in the workplace or is it just to gain understanding through the course as I presume mostly programs do these calculations to be economical?
How are you coping?
Do/Did you enjoy it?
What do you want to do now?
Thanks
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by tmorrall
I have applied and been offered to do mechanical engineering at universities in the uk (2014 entry) and have some questions:
Is there any good reading for the course that anyone can recommend (or link me to a thread)?
Where is stats used in engineering, I have noticed it in the specs and I hate stats but love maths like most I guess.
Leading onto, how much maths is there? And to what level? I see maths in the first and sometimes second years. Is it then all applied throughout everything?
Will all this numeracy stuff be much use in the workplace or is it just to gain understanding through the course as I presume mostly programs do these calculations to be economical?
How are you coping?
Do/Did you enjoy it?
What do you want to do now?
Thanks
Posted from TSR Mobile
Is there any good reading for the course that anyone can recommend (or link me to a thread)?
Where is stats used in engineering, I have noticed it in the specs and I hate stats but love maths like most I guess.
Leading onto, how much maths is there? And to what level? I see maths in the first and sometimes second years. Is it then all applied throughout everything?
Will all this numeracy stuff be much use in the workplace or is it just to gain understanding through the course as I presume mostly programs do these calculations to be economical?
How are you coping?
Do/Did you enjoy it?
What do you want to do now?
Thanks
Posted from TSR Mobile
I'm a graduate of mechanical engineering.
1) Read the mechanical engineering section of Physics Forums, as it has plenty of discussions on both real and academic mechanical engineering problems. You could also read textbooks too, but they're quite heavy on maths and theory for light reading.
2) It's used in many different areas, for example quality assurance and fatigue analysis.
3) You generally won't study that much pure maths classes but maths is used heavily throughout the degree - think matrices and calculus, for example.
4) Mainly to gain understanding of the theory and to help prepare you for further academic study/research (e.g. PhD, EngD). Certainly, doing design calculations involves maths, but in the workplace you're very unlikely to be using the same level of maths that you used during university, e.g. you're probably not going to be differentiating or integrating things any more once you leave university, unless you really want to go into advanced analysis or something.
5) I coped fine. Most do.
6) Yes, most of the time. There was of course some elements that I did not like, though.
7) I work full time now.
Original post by Smack
I'm a graduate of mechanical engineering.
1) Read the mechanical engineering section of Physics Forums, as it has plenty of discussions on both real and academic mechanical engineering problems. You could also read textbooks too, but they're quite heavy on maths and theory for light reading.
2) It's used in many different areas, for example quality assurance and fatigue analysis.
3) You generally won't study that much pure maths classes but maths is used heavily throughout the degree - think matrices and calculus, for example.
4) Mainly to gain understanding of the theory and to help prepare you for further academic study/research (e.g. PhD, EngD). Certainly, doing design calculations involves maths, but in the workplace you're very unlikely to be using the same level of maths that you used during university, e.g. you're probably not going to be differentiating or integrating things any more once you leave university, unless you really want to go into advanced analysis or something.
5) I coped fine. Most do.
6) Yes, most of the time. There was of course some elements that I did not like, though.
7) I work full time now.
1) Read the mechanical engineering section of Physics Forums, as it has plenty of discussions on both real and academic mechanical engineering problems. You could also read textbooks too, but they're quite heavy on maths and theory for light reading.
2) It's used in many different areas, for example quality assurance and fatigue analysis.
3) You generally won't study that much pure maths classes but maths is used heavily throughout the degree - think matrices and calculus, for example.
4) Mainly to gain understanding of the theory and to help prepare you for further academic study/research (e.g. PhD, EngD). Certainly, doing design calculations involves maths, but in the workplace you're very unlikely to be using the same level of maths that you used during university, e.g. you're probably not going to be differentiating or integrating things any more once you leave university, unless you really want to go into advanced analysis or something.
5) I coped fine. Most do.
6) Yes, most of the time. There was of course some elements that I did not like, though.
7) I work full time now.
Thanks for the response! Another couple if you're free haha
What sort of project(s) did you do?
Are you in engineering-related work, if so what do you get up to day-to-day?
Posted from TSR Mobile
I'm not a mechanical engineer, but I have managed mechanical engineers as part of a multi-disciplinary team in aerospace design.
My degrees are in electronics (BSc) and aerospace systems (MSc).
IMHO it all depends on where you want to go with your career and the type of organisation you end up in.
For exampe, if you want work as a project engineer (engineering management and planning), you will need to gain experience in varied engineering roles such as materials, stress engineering, verification and test, structural design, electrical/electronic design, software, safety systems, manufacturing & production, environmental etc. as well as the financial, management, legal and sales functions.
If you want to work at the cutting edge of design, then you will have to understand expicitly the capabilities and limitations of the materials, technologies, tools and techniques at your disposal. That means a much deeper understanding of the physics, equations and limitations of calculations, errors etc. in order to innovate and improve.
At the other end of the scale, if you want to work as a maintenance engineer, then you will not be taxed from a calculations viewpoint and you will be working to pre-defined plans and test schedules with computer aided everything. However, the trade off is the work will be rather repetitive and nowhere near as satisfying from my personal viewpoint.
1) K.E. Stroud. Engineering Mathematics 7th edition and Advanced Engineering Mathematics 5th edition will be invaluable.
2) Stats is used in manufacturing and production, design specification, test and failure mode analysis, modeling simulations etc.
3) In electrical and electronic engineering, pure maths is taught all the way through years 1 and 2. Complex numbers, trigonometry, matrix methods, vector differential calculus, tensors, series, domain transforms, probabiity and statistics, regression analysis, eigenvectors, Fourier analysis, Laplace transforms are covered in depth. These are applied throughout the course to all subject areas.
4) See my opening paragraphs.
5) When the going gets tough, most struggle through and see it as a a hurdle to overcome. It's only if you intend to do an M.Sc. or to go into cutting edge design work that you will need to be at the top of your game.
6) I love it. The work can be stressful with tight project deadlines, a lot of specfication and report writing, major presentations to peer groups, management, directors and clients. (You have to be prepared to justify your conclusions, methodology, costings etc. and they will and do pull it to pieces.) very long hours with social life on hold quite often when deadlines loom.
7) Career progression, I am a Principal Engineer (highest engineering grade where I work) and want to progress into senior management. Downsides, one more step away from the coal-face. Upsides, whole lifecycle management and more money. transferrable skills.
My degrees are in electronics (BSc) and aerospace systems (MSc).
IMHO it all depends on where you want to go with your career and the type of organisation you end up in.
For exampe, if you want work as a project engineer (engineering management and planning), you will need to gain experience in varied engineering roles such as materials, stress engineering, verification and test, structural design, electrical/electronic design, software, safety systems, manufacturing & production, environmental etc. as well as the financial, management, legal and sales functions.
If you want to work at the cutting edge of design, then you will have to understand expicitly the capabilities and limitations of the materials, technologies, tools and techniques at your disposal. That means a much deeper understanding of the physics, equations and limitations of calculations, errors etc. in order to innovate and improve.
At the other end of the scale, if you want to work as a maintenance engineer, then you will not be taxed from a calculations viewpoint and you will be working to pre-defined plans and test schedules with computer aided everything. However, the trade off is the work will be rather repetitive and nowhere near as satisfying from my personal viewpoint.
1) K.E. Stroud. Engineering Mathematics 7th edition and Advanced Engineering Mathematics 5th edition will be invaluable.
2) Stats is used in manufacturing and production, design specification, test and failure mode analysis, modeling simulations etc.
3) In electrical and electronic engineering, pure maths is taught all the way through years 1 and 2. Complex numbers, trigonometry, matrix methods, vector differential calculus, tensors, series, domain transforms, probabiity and statistics, regression analysis, eigenvectors, Fourier analysis, Laplace transforms are covered in depth. These are applied throughout the course to all subject areas.
4) See my opening paragraphs.
5) When the going gets tough, most struggle through and see it as a a hurdle to overcome. It's only if you intend to do an M.Sc. or to go into cutting edge design work that you will need to be at the top of your game.
6) I love it. The work can be stressful with tight project deadlines, a lot of specfication and report writing, major presentations to peer groups, management, directors and clients. (You have to be prepared to justify your conclusions, methodology, costings etc. and they will and do pull it to pieces.) very long hours with social life on hold quite often when deadlines loom.
7) Career progression, I am a Principal Engineer (highest engineering grade where I work) and want to progress into senior management. Downsides, one more step away from the coal-face. Upsides, whole lifecycle management and more money. transferrable skills.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by tmorrall
Thanks for the response! Another couple if you're free haha
What sort of project(s) did you do?
Are you in engineering-related work, if so what do you get up to day-to-day?
Posted from TSR Mobile
What sort of project(s) did you do?
Are you in engineering-related work, if so what do you get up to day-to-day?
Posted from TSR Mobile
I built "stuff", e.g. underwater robots, vehicles, wind turbines... all good fun. Although quite stressful when your materials don't turn up on time and it turns out your supplier has actually forgotten about you.
I am in engineering related work and I mainly have meetings and look at metrics and data, and provide the odd bit of technical support. What you'll find is that quite a large amount of the jobs out there requiring engineering qualifications aren't engineering jobs as such, i.e. they don't involve design, analysis, manufacture, technical support etc. (although I do provide some technical support), but they are still technical in nature and would benefit by being done by someone with an engineering degree.
Original post by uberteknik
I'm not a mechanical engineer, but I have managed mechanical engineers as part of a multi-disciplinary team in aerospace design.
My degrees are in electronics (BSc) and aerospace systems (MSc).
IMHO it all depends on where you want to go with your career and the type of organisation you end up in.
For exampe, if you want work as a project engineer (engineering management and planning), you will need to gain experience in varied engineering roles such as materials, stress engineering, verification and test, structural design, electrical/electronic design, software, safety systems, manufacturing & production, environmental etc. as well as the financial, management, legal and sales functions.
If you want to work at the cutting edge of design, then you will have to understand expicitly the capabilities and limitations of the materials, technologies, tools and techniques at your disposal. That means a much deeper understanding of the physics, equations and limitations of calculations, errors etc. in order to innovate and improve.
At the other end of the scale, if you want to work as a maintenance engineer, then you will not be taxed from a calculations viewpoint and you will be working to pre-defined plans and test schedules with computer aided everything. However, the trade off is the work will be rather repetitive and nowhere near as satisfying from my personal viewpoint.
1) K.E. Stroud. Engineering Mathematics 7th edition and Advanced Engineering Mathematics 5th edition will be invaluable.
2) Stats is used in manufacturing and production, design specification, test and failure mode analysis, modeling simulations etc.
3) In electrical and electronic engineering, pure maths is taught all the way through years 1 and 2. Complex numbers, trigonometry, matrix methods, vector differential calculus, tensors, series, domain transforms, probabiity and statistics, regression analysis, eigenvectors, Fourier analysis, Laplace transforms are covered in depth. These are applied throughout the course to all subject areas.
4) See my opening paragraphs.
5) When the going gets tough, most struggle through and see it as a a hurdle to overcome. It's only if you intend to do an M.Sc. or to go into cutting edge design work that you will need to be at the top of your game.
6) I love it. The work can be stressful with tight project deadlines, a lot of specfication and report writing, major presentations to peer groups, management, directors and clients. (You have to be prepared to justify your conclusions, methodology, costings etc. and they will and do pull it to pieces.) very long hours with social life on hold quite often when deadlines loom.
7) Career progression, I am a Principal Engineer (highest engineering grade where I work) and want to progress into senior management. Downsides, one more step away from the coal-face. Upsides, whole lifecycle management and more money. transferrable skills.
My degrees are in electronics (BSc) and aerospace systems (MSc).
IMHO it all depends on where you want to go with your career and the type of organisation you end up in.
For exampe, if you want work as a project engineer (engineering management and planning), you will need to gain experience in varied engineering roles such as materials, stress engineering, verification and test, structural design, electrical/electronic design, software, safety systems, manufacturing & production, environmental etc. as well as the financial, management, legal and sales functions.
If you want to work at the cutting edge of design, then you will have to understand expicitly the capabilities and limitations of the materials, technologies, tools and techniques at your disposal. That means a much deeper understanding of the physics, equations and limitations of calculations, errors etc. in order to innovate and improve.
At the other end of the scale, if you want to work as a maintenance engineer, then you will not be taxed from a calculations viewpoint and you will be working to pre-defined plans and test schedules with computer aided everything. However, the trade off is the work will be rather repetitive and nowhere near as satisfying from my personal viewpoint.
1) K.E. Stroud. Engineering Mathematics 7th edition and Advanced Engineering Mathematics 5th edition will be invaluable.
2) Stats is used in manufacturing and production, design specification, test and failure mode analysis, modeling simulations etc.
3) In electrical and electronic engineering, pure maths is taught all the way through years 1 and 2. Complex numbers, trigonometry, matrix methods, vector differential calculus, tensors, series, domain transforms, probabiity and statistics, regression analysis, eigenvectors, Fourier analysis, Laplace transforms are covered in depth. These are applied throughout the course to all subject areas.
4) See my opening paragraphs.
5) When the going gets tough, most struggle through and see it as a a hurdle to overcome. It's only if you intend to do an M.Sc. or to go into cutting edge design work that you will need to be at the top of your game.
6) I love it. The work can be stressful with tight project deadlines, a lot of specfication and report writing, major presentations to peer groups, management, directors and clients. (You have to be prepared to justify your conclusions, methodology, costings etc. and they will and do pull it to pieces.) very long hours with social life on hold quite often when deadlines loom.
7) Career progression, I am a Principal Engineer (highest engineering grade where I work) and want to progress into senior management. Downsides, one more step away from the coal-face. Upsides, whole lifecycle management and more money. transferrable skills.
Really insightful. Thanks for your time you took to write this! I will check out those books.
Ah I'm not looking for much pure. I am good with just all applied as I would expect from an engineering course. Presentations are good, reports not so much. I am sure I'll just get stuck in to whatever as I am love science, maths, design and just really want to get stuck in with decent practical.
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Original post by Smack
I built "stuff", e.g. underwater robots, vehicles, wind turbines... all good fun. Although quite stressful when your materials don't turn up on time and it turns out your supplier has actually forgotten about you.
I am in engineering related work and I mainly have meetings and look at metrics and data, and provide the odd bit of technical support. What you'll find is that quite a large amount of the jobs out there requiring engineering qualifications aren't engineering jobs as such, i.e. they don't involve design, analysis, manufacture, technical support etc. (although I do provide some technical support), but they are still technical in nature and would benefit by being done by someone with an engineering degree.
I am in engineering related work and I mainly have meetings and look at metrics and data, and provide the odd bit of technical support. What you'll find is that quite a large amount of the jobs out there requiring engineering qualifications aren't engineering jobs as such, i.e. they don't involve design, analysis, manufacture, technical support etc. (although I do provide some technical support), but they are still technical in nature and would benefit by being done by someone with an engineering degree.
That sounds positively annoying haha
Yeah well I just want a degree thats respected, looks interesting, hands on but not limiting to a pure science.
Thanks again
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Original post by tmorrall
I have applied and been offered to do mechanical engineering at universities in the uk (2014 entry) and have some questions:
Is there any good reading for the course that anyone can recommend (or link me to a thread)?
Where is stats used in engineering, I have noticed it in the specs and I hate stats but love maths like most I guess.
Leading onto, how much maths is there? And to what level? I see maths in the first and sometimes second years. Is it then all applied throughout everything?
Will all this numeracy stuff be much use in the workplace or is it just to gain understanding through the course as I presume mostly programs do these calculations to be economical?
How are you coping?
Do/Did you enjoy it?
What do you want to do now?
Thanks
Posted from TSR Mobile
Is there any good reading for the course that anyone can recommend (or link me to a thread)?
Where is stats used in engineering, I have noticed it in the specs and I hate stats but love maths like most I guess.
Leading onto, how much maths is there? And to what level? I see maths in the first and sometimes second years. Is it then all applied throughout everything?
Will all this numeracy stuff be much use in the workplace or is it just to gain understanding through the course as I presume mostly programs do these calculations to be economical?
How are you coping?
Do/Did you enjoy it?
What do you want to do now?
Thanks
Posted from TSR Mobile
Hi there,
I study engineering science but with a specialism in mechanical engineering, currently in third year of four.
I had to do a stats course last year (4 lectures) but it was only stats 1-3 from A-level and we haven't applied it at all so I ignored it because I didn't need to answer that question in the exam if I didn't want to.
Maths was 1/4 of my first and second year, this year it is equivalent to 1/6 kind of (i.e. if you ignore the fact that some of this year is project but I can't remember what that is worth)
I did a summer placement at Jaguar Landrover in the summer just gone and I definitely used maths, but not as hard as the maths I had learnt, however having the understanding of the maths is vital to be able to do other things.
It is hard work, but then I am at Oxford so I am stretching myself to the limit.
I do however love it, I didn't enjoy it that much last year, but this year I got to choose my own modules and it is so much better.
I hope to stay in engineering when I graduate but I haven't entirely decided how.
Original post by dotty_but_good
Hi there,
I study engineering science but with a specialism in mechanical engineering, currently in third year of four.
I had to do a stats course last year (4 lectures) but it was only stats 1-3 from A-level and we haven't applied it at all so I ignored it because I didn't need to answer that question in the exam if I didn't want to.
Maths was 1/4 of my first and second year, this year it is equivalent to 1/6 kind of (i.e. if you ignore the fact that some of this year is project but I can't remember what that is worth)
I did a summer placement at Jaguar Landrover in the summer just gone and I definitely used maths, but not as hard as the maths I had learnt, however having the understanding of the maths is vital to be able to do other things.
It is hard work, but then I am at Oxford so I am stretching myself to the limit.
I do however love it, I didn't enjoy it that much last year, but this year I got to choose my own modules and it is so much better.
I hope to stay in engineering when I graduate but I haven't entirely decided how.
I study engineering science but with a specialism in mechanical engineering, currently in third year of four.
I had to do a stats course last year (4 lectures) but it was only stats 1-3 from A-level and we haven't applied it at all so I ignored it because I didn't need to answer that question in the exam if I didn't want to.
Maths was 1/4 of my first and second year, this year it is equivalent to 1/6 kind of (i.e. if you ignore the fact that some of this year is project but I can't remember what that is worth)
I did a summer placement at Jaguar Landrover in the summer just gone and I definitely used maths, but not as hard as the maths I had learnt, however having the understanding of the maths is vital to be able to do other things.
It is hard work, but then I am at Oxford so I am stretching myself to the limit.
I do however love it, I didn't enjoy it that much last year, but this year I got to choose my own modules and it is so much better.
I hope to stay in engineering when I graduate but I haven't entirely decided how.
Ahhh just stats 1-3?! You are speaking to someone who has only done stats 1 (I don't even do further). I love maths but you know my own research into proofs of equations in physics. I like it more applied than the pure stuff...
Is that the case?! You have options in the exams?
Where were you based for it? how did you about applying? What did you do?
I do think the course sounds great. Glad to hear someone enjoying it. What sort of options did you take?
Thanks for your response!
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Original post by tmorrall
Ahhh just stats 1-3?! You are speaking to someone who has only done stats 1 (I don't even do further). I love maths but you know my own research into proofs of equations in physics. I like it more applied than the pure stuff...
Is that the case?! You have options in the exams?
Where were you based for it? how did you about applying? What did you do?
I do think the course sounds great. Glad to hear someone enjoying it. What sort of options did you take?
Thanks for your response!
Posted from TSR Mobile
Is that the case?! You have options in the exams?
Where were you based for it? how did you about applying? What did you do?
I do think the course sounds great. Glad to hear someone enjoying it. What sort of options did you take?
Thanks for your response!
Posted from TSR Mobile
I had done stats 1&2 and the reality is that they don't really get harder you just have to learn more things.
For me in exams each exam is 3 hours and there are 8 questions, each relates to four lectures and you have to answer 5 so if there is a topic you don't like then you don't revise it and don't do the question in the exam, it is best to learn 6 or 7 out of the 8 topics so that you have some choice in the exam in case one of the questions is a real bitch. But it does definitely enable you to not worry about stuff you really don't understand/like.
I applied for JLR at Christmas time, they take about 100 undergrads for placements; either summer or whole year placements if you are doing a sandwich course. Everyone is based in Coventry or Birmingham or there abouts.
This year I am taking a mixture of different topics; biomedical engineering, solid mechanics, soil mechanics, information engineering and software engineering.
Original post by dotty_but_good
I had done stats 1&2 and the reality is that they don't really get harder you just have to learn more things.
For me in exams each exam is 3 hours and there are 8 questions, each relates to four lectures and you have to answer 5 so if there is a topic you don't like then you don't revise it and don't do the question in the exam, it is best to learn 6 or 7 out of the 8 topics so that you have some choice in the exam in case one of the questions is a real bitch. But it does definitely enable you to not worry about stuff you really don't understand/like.
I applied for JLR at Christmas time, they take about 100 undergrads for placements; either summer or whole year placements if you are doing a sandwich course. Everyone is based in Coventry or Birmingham or there abouts.
This year I am taking a mixture of different topics; biomedical engineering, solid mechanics, soil mechanics, information engineering and software engineering.
For me in exams each exam is 3 hours and there are 8 questions, each relates to four lectures and you have to answer 5 so if there is a topic you don't like then you don't revise it and don't do the question in the exam, it is best to learn 6 or 7 out of the 8 topics so that you have some choice in the exam in case one of the questions is a real bitch. But it does definitely enable you to not worry about stuff you really don't understand/like.
I applied for JLR at Christmas time, they take about 100 undergrads for placements; either summer or whole year placements if you are doing a sandwich course. Everyone is based in Coventry or Birmingham or there abouts.
This year I am taking a mixture of different topics; biomedical engineering, solid mechanics, soil mechanics, information engineering and software engineering.
Oh right that sounds like a good way to examine. I will look into if that is the same at the universities I have applied to.
I am reasonably local to the JLR sites atm. I'd love to get involved with them. I have applied to do sandwich options in my courses or will do anyway.
That sounds awesome. I am looking at biomedical engineering as a career path so I would probably take some of that and maybe the automotive stuff if it is offered.
Thanks for the insight!
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Original post by tmorrall
Oh right that sounds like a good way to examine. I will look into if that is the same at the universities I have applied to.
I am reasonably local to the JLR sites atm. I'd love to get involved with them. I have applied to do sandwich options in my courses or will do anyway.
That sounds awesome. I am looking at biomedical engineering as a career path so I would probably take some of that and maybe the automotive stuff if it is offered.
Thanks for the insight!
Posted from TSR Mobile
I am reasonably local to the JLR sites atm. I'd love to get involved with them. I have applied to do sandwich options in my courses or will do anyway.
That sounds awesome. I am looking at biomedical engineering as a career path so I would probably take some of that and maybe the automotive stuff if it is offered.
Thanks for the insight!
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If you're interested in automotive then I'd definitely recommend taking part in Formula Student even by volunteering from the start if possible!
Original post by TheGrinningSkull
If you're interested in automotive then I'd definitely recommend taking part in Formula Student even by volunteering from the start if possible!
Well I might end up in Leeds and they dont stop talking about it hahaha. I think they say you can do it as your final year project... I would definitely be up for it!!
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Original post by tmorrall
Well I might end up in Leeds and they dont stop talking about it hahaha. I think they say you can do it as your final year project... I would definitely be up for it!!
Posted from TSR Mobile
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Sweet! Yes, I think you might also be able to get involved in prior years perhaps as a volunteer, help out with manufacturing and assembly as well as other works! Learning the trade so to speak, so definitely ask about that as when it comes to choosing the project you'll be more well versed
Original post by TheGrinningSkull
Sweet! Yes, I think you might also be able to get involved in prior years perhaps as a volunteer, help out with manufacturing and assembly as well as other works! Learning the trade so to speak, so definitely ask about that as when it comes to choosing the project you'll be more well versed
Sounds like a smart move to me. I'll see what the situation is when I'm on the course and will get asking. Thanks
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