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Why was Margaret Thatcher a strict Tory when she was from a poor background.....?

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Reply 60
Original post by newts2k
I just watched Iron Lady and enjoyed it, athough I see that Thatcher was from a pretty poor family unlike most Tories, however, she turned out to be a strong conservative. I couldnt determine whether her parents were Labour but assume they were.


Her parents were small business owners, i doubt they were classic Labour voters.

Thatcher grew up and came into politics at a time when Britain's influence in the world was declining and also at a time when a radical shift to the left had begun to strangle industry and growth, by 1979 we were the 'sick man of Europe'. Thatcher's reaction to this as somebody passionate about politics, brought up by small business owners and reacting to the circumstances of the time was to support the work of Hayek and the Victorian liberals, she is famous for saying "were Gladstone alive today, he'd be a Conservative". In many ways the majority of Tories today are more akin to classical liberals simply with the addition of being constitutionally conservative. Thatcher in many ways (though she was influenced by her father's views) was simply an opposite reaction to the circumstances of her time. Couple this with becoming leader at the opportune moment (it's doubtful she'd have been as popular were she elected even 15 years earlier) and both the country and party rallied behind her.

Original post by felamaslen
I don't think her beliefs came out of a self-interest or short-sighted parochialism. She wanted what was in her mind right for Britain, not specifically the poor people of Britain but Britain as a whole.

Also, I dispute that she was a Tory. I think she was much more of a classical Liberal.


I agree with your point regarding classical liberalism, see above.

Original post by CJG21
Class should not determine your political stance. Being poor doesn't mean you can't vote Tory or be a Tory if you agree with their principles and doctrines.

I'm from a poor working class background and I'm a Tory.


Original post by newts2k
What do you like or believe in with regards to Tory party?


I have been born into a family in which my parents have barely ever worked and where total benefits have to my knowledge not exceeded £8k per year. I am also a devout capitalist.

The reason i am a Tory is because like many people my views are based on a reaction to circumstance. Being pretty bright and reacting to growing up in relative poverty i simply refuse to be poor any longer and wish to afford my future children all the advantages i can offer them, as such i am ambitious, driven and in short aspirational. This in itself however does not make one ally as a Tory as Lord Sugar evidences however the Conservatives take a more meritocratic view in principle in which with hard work and commitment you can reach the very top, this is very appealing. In addition i don't believe that one should be burdened via excessive taxation and hate how Labour have tried to portray the rich and poor as enemies in the hope of inciting class war. If one escapes poverty and becomes very wealthy then they should be congratulated, instead there are people who talk of salary caps, 50% income taxes and completely miss the point regarding welfare. Having grown up knowing many unemployed people i can tell you that throwing welfare at them like the last government did does **** all to get them back to work.

Original post by Liquid Swordsman
I imagine there is a pretty strong correlation between income and voting habits tho


Suprisingly only for a minority. For A, D and E class voters (really rich, unemployed, disabled/can't work) there is a strong correlation. For the middle and working classes however Labour was able to win B class voters in 1997 and 2001 and in 1987 Thatcher actually got 45% of C2 voters (pretty much the sub £20k earners) and even in 2010 39% of C2 voters voted Tory.

There is a perception issue though because in particular there is a "shy Tory" vote which comes from the working class. Essentially they won't admit to their intentions because of societal perception.
Reply 61
Original post by Clause
Fellow genuine Tory here, I agree with him that we should ban JSA and instead bring back the workhouse so claimants can clean the chimneys for soup instead, with all the money now saved we the elites will use will spend that money on hunting rifles instead so then when those workhouse workers ask for more soup we may hunt them in a big open field on horseback as for those on housing benefit rather than actually building any smaller houses or flats I plan to throw them out onto the street to beg because of course if I did build some more houses to meet demand I would not be able to jack up the prices and give another bonus to my mates so they can destroy viable small and medium businesses.

In summary shoot the poor and raise my annual salary.
That's my current long term economic policy what do you think?

Pic related me.

George_osborne_hi.jpg



Hi Gideon,

What happens if some of the hunting rifles were to somehow end up in the hands of the proletariat? Do you have a contingency plan in such an event?
Reply 62
Original post by River85
I wouldn't say she came from a poor background. A relatively modest one, yes. Her father owned two greengrocers. They worked hard, but provided what was probably a relatively comfortable (if not affluent) upbringing.

Besides, there is strong working class Tory support. Sunderland, a working class city, has strong areas of traditional Conservative support for example (mind Thatcherism helped to destroy some of this). Particularly One Nation Toryism, which Thatcher certainly wasn't a believer in, I should say!

Just because someone is working class, or lower middle class, doesn't mean they can't be a Conservative.

By the way Thatcher's family was a Liberal family, at least on her father's side. Though her father stood as an Independent candidate in local government elections which was not unusual at the time.


Original post by the bear
Baroness Thatcher's ideas were largely inspired by her Methodist background. This encouraged people to take responsibility for themselves and their families first. Genuinely unfortunate people like lepers etc would be given assistance but poverty was assumed to be a permanent feature of the world.


These two points are actually really interesting. I knew that she was religious and that her father had classical liberal type views but not the extent to which they shaped her or that their was a long line of liberals.

Original post by russellsteapot
Same reason I am, I suppose.

Broadly speaking, your background is where you're from, your politics represent what you hope for in the future. It makes absolutely no sense for your background to define who you vote for, especially if you're from a deprived background (although I accept that for some reason, a lot of people do let their background govern their voting habits).

The only people who seem worse off under the Conservatives are those who have had their benefits cut. So in that sense they might vote Labour, but you have to wonder what kind of aspirations cause people to vote for the party which gives them the most free money.


Possibly the best way I've heard it said.

On your second point that's just it, there are huge estates where people grow up surrounded by failure and handouts from the state. These produce whole swathes of people devoid of aspiration and who yearn for the socialistic attacks on the wealthy out of a combination of unfairness, feeling that they are trapped in poverty and envy.
Original post by PierreIsNotMyName
Turns out he's been banned. No surprises there then

Posting this on behalf of BanJSA-ForAll

It was merely a temp ban.
Original post by Clause
Fellow genuine Tory here, I agree with him that we should ban JSA and instead bring back the workhouse so claimants can clean the chimneys for soup instead, with all the money now saved we the elites will use will spend that money on hunting rifles instead so then when those workhouse workers ask for more soup we may hunt them in a big open field on horseback as for those on housing benefit rather than actually building any smaller houses or flats I plan to throw them out onto the street to beg because of course if I did build some more houses to meet demand I would not be able to jack up the prices and give another bonus to my mates so they can destroy viable small and medium businesses.

In summary shoot the poor and raise my annual salary.
That's my current long term economic policy what do you think?

Pic related me.

George_osborne_hi.jpg


Why thank you kind tory.
Reply 65
cos she had some brains unlike most poor people
Reply 66
Original post by DK_Tipp
Hi Gideon,

What happens if some of the hunting rifles were to somehow end up in the hands of the proletariat? Do you have a contingency plan in such an event?


Don't worry we all have Jetpacks and a beach house in the Caribbean.

Where do you think your pension went?
Original post by Rakas21
hate how Labour have tried to portray the rich and poor as enemies in the hope of inciting class war.
The Conservatives are doing this now, see the whole strivers vs skivers thing



Original post by Rakas21
Suprisingly only for a minority. For A, D and E class voters (really rich, unemployed, disabled/can't work) there is a strong correlation. For the middle and working classes however Labour was able to win B class voters in 1997 and 2001 and in 1987 Thatcher actually got 45% of C2 voters (pretty much the sub £20k earners) and even in 2010 39% of C2 voters voted Tory.
Yeah, I guess that makes sense
Original post by Liquid Swordsman
The Conservatives are doing this now, see the whole strivers vs skivers thing
I think you've misread it, they are saying that, specifically to avoid a rich-poor class war. They don't want a rich vs poor war, they want poor people to feel they can vote Tory, to ensure the Tory vote bypasses the class divide. If you're a striver not a skiver then you can vote Tory. "Got a job? Work hard? Good vote Tory!" As the stats by Rakas show, there is a lot of middle ground to be won or lost. The Tories are trying to get a contributors vs non contributors war going.
Reply 69
Original post by Clause
Don't worry we all have Jetpacks and a beach house in the Caribbean.

Where do you think your pension went?


Foresight. I like it.
Original post by Fizzel
They don't want a rich vs poor war

Mmm they want a poor vs poor war
Reply 71
Well Conservatives usually believe in competition and helping those who are driven. They associate left-wing policies as making people lazy and stopping them from working hard to get themselves out of poor situations so the fact that Margaret Thatcher, who came from a poor background and still managed to become the first female prime minister in the UK, was a tory isn't really surprising. She probably felt like if I can work hard and get myself out of a poor situation, then other people should be able to and instead of the government helping them out, the government should not interfere to increase competition and give people incentives to sort themselves out. I support Labour but I can understand why she might have adopted a mindset like that, obviously things aren't always that simple and some people who want to work hard aren't given the opportunities to because of where they came from. I just think everyone should be given the opportunities to help them succeed, there are some lazy rich people out there that are succeeding not because of hardwork but because of the hardwork their parents or relatives did before them so the whole 'hardwork = success' or 'lack of success = laziness' argument is flawed.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 72
Original post by Welsh_insomniac
She was a Tory probably because of all the mess she grew up with under Labour during the 70s. She new that Britain was stagnating and she chose her politics based on that. She believed the poor would benefit from her policies.


Not only the mess of Labour but she also didn't like Heath for his 'U' turn just when he needed to stick with the policies he started in 1970.
Reply 73
Original post by Liquid Swordsman
Mmm they want a poor vs poor war


An everybody (including the working poor) vs long term unemployed would be more accurate. This is somewhat shown by the fact that they have not abolished tax credits and plan to raise the threshold again in the next Tory manifesto.

It's something i entirely approve of but by attacking the long term unemployed they reinforce their message that every singly person should work for their own prosperity and force many into the jobs market. The Labour attitude actively tells the poor that they can do well, but not too well because it's not fair that your smart and driven but somebody else is not.
The poor must be forced to work in workhouses.
Original post by DK_Tipp
Well she failed in that. She cut spending on services such as health and education. Yet spending under her actually rose by an average 1.1%. Creating mass unemployment will do that I suppose. And I mean... shutting down an industry while simultaneously cutting education funding? I can't see any other outcome than swathes of Welfare Dependency.


Yes I agree with this unfortunately, the high unemployment that saddled Britain throughout Mrs T's time in office was always a big drag on our economy and meant she struggled to get a lid on public spending. It had two other negative effects too: one, it limited the effects of the North Sea oil windfall that came in during Thatcher's time, that was largely wasted; two it started off the culture of worklessness in some families that has been a problem ever since. Some people try and blame this on 13 years of Labour but long term unemployment was rooted in the system through the 1980s and 1990s.

Thatcher was successful in getting on top of trade union excesses but as for other achievements her legacy was mixed, even though I agreed with a lot of her ideas.

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