Is medicine really that competitive?
I know everyone says that medicine is a really competitive course, but honestly if you look at the chances of getting in, it's usually a 1:4 or 1:5 ratio for most places. That's not bad, right? I know courses that have literally like a 1:10 or more chance of getting an offer? So what i want to know is, is medicine as competitive as we're led to believe it is by society...
Original post by alicia2908
I know everyone says that medicine is a really competitive course, but honestly if you look at the chances of getting in, it's usually a 1:4 or 1:5 ratio for most places. That's not bad, right? I know courses that have literally like a 1:10 or more chance of getting an offer? So what i want to know is, is medicine as competitive as we're led to believe it is by society...
Medicine is competitive course because it attracts excellent candidates of the from all around the world to pursue a career within it as society believe it leads to "noble" career. If there are less candidates applying for it (say around less 7,000 people applying for it), its more likely to be a less competitive course compared to other course. I think its the same with other popular course like Law and Engineering but again depends on how many competitive applicants apply for it. There are other factors affecting it as well such as demand for it.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by alicia2908
I know everyone says that medicine is a really competitive course, but honestly if you look at the chances of getting in, it's usually a 1:4 or 1:5 ratio for most places. That's not bad, right? I know courses that have literally like a 1:10 or more chance of getting an offer? So what i want to know is, is medicine as competitive as we're led to believe it is by society...
The average competition ratio is more like 10:1, the highest being more than 18:1. But its more complicated than just that - medicine is considered difficult because it combines that 10:1 ratio with the highest grade requirements at absolutely every university (AAA minimum). It also has work experience requirements which take a lot of commitment, separate entrance exams like UKCAT/BMAT, and almost everywhere interviews.
Along with vet med and dentistry, no other subject is as uniformly rigorous, and there no other courses where an AAA candidate stands a 60% chance of getting no offers at all.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by nexttime
The average competition ratio is more like 10:1, the highest being more than 18:1. But its more complicated than just that - medicine is considered difficult because it combines that 10:1 ratio with the highest grade requirements at absolutely every university (AAA minimum). It also has work experience requirements which take a lot of commitment, separate entrance exams like UKCAT/BMAT, and almost everywhere interviews.
Along with vet med and dentistry, no other subject is as uniformly rigorous, and there no other courses where an AAA candidate stands a 60% chance of getting no offers at all.
Along with vet med and dentistry, no other subject is as uniformly rigorous, and there no other courses where an AAA candidate stands a 60% chance of getting no offers at all.
There's a 10:1 place ratio, but universities give out twice as many offers. so the actual chances of you getting an offer is around 5:1
I think you're forgetting the quality of the applicants. Cambridge for example has one of the best ratios statistics-wise, but you know that the vast majority of people applying will have all the bases covered, amazing grades/UMS, work experience, extra-curriculars etc., to a very great extent.
It's the massive difficulty in differentiating between quality applicants that causes some of the best ones to get left behind more than often. Hence the introduction of admissions tests and interviews, they're just extra hurdles in the admissions process to sieve out candidates.
How many media studies courses need an interview, or an admissions test, or both before an offer is made?
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It's the massive difficulty in differentiating between quality applicants that causes some of the best ones to get left behind more than often. Hence the introduction of admissions tests and interviews, they're just extra hurdles in the admissions process to sieve out candidates.
How many media studies courses need an interview, or an admissions test, or both before an offer is made?
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by alicia2908
There's a 10:1 place ratio, but universities give out twice as many offers. so the actual chances of you getting an offer is around 5:1
Ok. That's one of the highest ratios you will find on UCAS.
And the headline figure remains the same: Close to 2 in 3 applicants get no offers at all, which is something that is pretty rare for AAA candidates applying to any other subject.
It sounds like you just think that a 60% chance of not getting into medicine per year isn't that high. That's up to you, maybe you've been given the wrong impression, but just remember that comparatively speaking its way higher than any other subject, and that when people have dedicated hundreds of hours to work experience and many hundreds more into getting good grades and still get rejected, it is pretty devastating for them, even if that did 'only' happen to 15,272 people last year.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by alicia2908
There's a 10:1 place ratio, but universities give out twice as many offers. so the actual chances of you getting an offer is around 5:1
Mind you, Cambridge's admission ratios are:
Application
ffers=15,692:4141 = 3.8:1 ...Even the lowest Oxford success rate for Oxford is 8.1 (maths, 12.3 applicants per place)
2012 data.
Ofc, there will be some that have higher and lower ratios than some medical school ratios, but in general, it;s usually less.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by alicia2908
I know everyone says that medicine is a really competitive course, but honestly if you look at the chances of getting in, it's usually a 1:4 or 1:5 ratio for most places. That's not bad, right? I know courses that have literally like a 1:10 or more chance of getting an offer? So what i want to know is, is medicine as competitive as we're led to believe it is by society...
Medicine is the most competitive course out there !
I'm comparing medicine with other courses at top universities that require at least AAA at A level.
Original post by alicia2908
I'm comparing medicine with other courses at top universities that require at least AAA at A level.
Absolutely no disrespect intended towards Chem Eng, Aeronautical Engineering, Physics, Natural Science students out there in this post.
None of the above typically require their own aptitude tests. Lots of unis base interview decisions on UKCAT/BMAT success, and they are both difficult in their own respect. BMAT demands academic excellence which includes stuff at A2 which you wouldn't have even covered when you sit it.
The UKCAT demands persistence, raw talent and a developed skill set.
We don't ask that of the aforementioned and exceptionally tricky courses. Medicine is more difficult to practise and learn because of its nature. You need to be able to learn independently, apply it and work in a professional manner that few other careers ever have to do. The degree leads on to a direct career, whereas Physics might well not do. Universities need to consider these aspects of YOU before they even start teaching you. That is why the tests are used and naturally they attract the very best people.
Original post by acecahill39
Medicine is competitive course because it attracts excellent candidates of the from all around the world to pursue a career within it as society believe it leads to "noble" career. If there are less candidates applying for it (say around less 7,000 people applying for it), its more likely to be a less competitive course compared to other course. I think its the same with other popular course like Law and Engineering but again depends on how many competitive applicants apply for it. There are other factors affecting it as well such as demand for it.
Its much more competitive than most engineering, I got an offer for Chem eng at manchester with a medicine personal statememnt
Original post by AdamskiUK
Absolutely no disrespect intended towards Chem Eng, Aeronautical Engineering, Physics, Natural Science students out there in this post.
None of the above typically require their own aptitude tests. Lots of unis base interview decisions on UKCAT/BMAT success, and they are both difficult in their own respect. BMAT demands academic excellence which includes stuff at A2 which you wouldn't have even covered when you sit it.
The UKCAT demands persistence, raw talent and a developed skill set.
We don't ask that of the aforementioned and exceptionally tricky courses. Medicine is more difficult to practise and learn because of its nature. You need to be able to learn independently, apply it and work in a professional manner that few other careers ever have to do. The degree leads on to a direct career, whereas Physics might well not do. Universities need to consider these aspects of YOU before they even start teaching you. That is why the tests are used and naturally they attract the very best people.
None of the above typically require their own aptitude tests. Lots of unis base interview decisions on UKCAT/BMAT success, and they are both difficult in their own respect. BMAT demands academic excellence which includes stuff at A2 which you wouldn't have even covered when you sit it.
The UKCAT demands persistence, raw talent and a developed skill set.
We don't ask that of the aforementioned and exceptionally tricky courses. Medicine is more difficult to practise and learn because of its nature. You need to be able to learn independently, apply it and work in a professional manner that few other careers ever have to do. The degree leads on to a direct career, whereas Physics might well not do. Universities need to consider these aspects of YOU before they even start teaching you. That is why the tests are used and naturally they attract the very best people.
great answer
...remember that quite a few potential applicants decide to not apply each year too due to the first few hurdles too (e.g. getting work experience, a decent mark in the UKCAT and etc). =P
Anyway, I don't think the competitions between medicine and most other courses are comparable - like many others have mentioned, medicine requires essentially a very different and selective procedure whilst other courses don't really (a test/interview to determine your competence/aptitude at the most).
Most courses basically just purely assess your academic ability or practical skills (e.g. artistic skills for art) to do well in the subject (e.g. see if you've done suitable subjects, got decent grades/predictions etc). Whereas for medicine, you're assessed not only on academic excellence, but also personal qualities, and various skills. The vast majority of applicants are more than capable and have demonstrated these various criteria well, so they're, instead, assessed against each other in a fierce competition for the places.
Just some examples to illustrate what I mean:
---a lot of competitions nowadays are extremely fierce (with 1000s of competitors facing each other off for like 5 winning places or something). The competition ratio sounds crazy but for a lot of them, only like 10% of the entries are really seriously considered by the judges because the vast majority of entries are just not up to the technical/professional standards they're looking for.
---It's a frequent thing to see academically excellent and talented non-medicine candidates getting all 5 offers from their chosen universities, whereas similar ones applying for medicine getting none. I came across a few people who have some of the most impressive academic history going onto to receive PhD/masters offers from top institutions, but failing to secure even just one offer at a medical school. Quite a few medicine applicants who have be unsuccessful in the past have decide to follow alternative career routes and many of them received offers from Oxbridge and the like too.
Anyway, I don't think the competitions between medicine and most other courses are comparable - like many others have mentioned, medicine requires essentially a very different and selective procedure whilst other courses don't really (a test/interview to determine your competence/aptitude at the most).
Most courses basically just purely assess your academic ability or practical skills (e.g. artistic skills for art) to do well in the subject (e.g. see if you've done suitable subjects, got decent grades/predictions etc). Whereas for medicine, you're assessed not only on academic excellence, but also personal qualities, and various skills. The vast majority of applicants are more than capable and have demonstrated these various criteria well, so they're, instead, assessed against each other in a fierce competition for the places.
Just some examples to illustrate what I mean:
---a lot of competitions nowadays are extremely fierce (with 1000s of competitors facing each other off for like 5 winning places or something). The competition ratio sounds crazy but for a lot of them, only like 10% of the entries are really seriously considered by the judges because the vast majority of entries are just not up to the technical/professional standards they're looking for.
---It's a frequent thing to see academically excellent and talented non-medicine candidates getting all 5 offers from their chosen universities, whereas similar ones applying for medicine getting none. I came across a few people who have some of the most impressive academic history going onto to receive PhD/masters offers from top institutions, but failing to secure even just one offer at a medical school. Quite a few medicine applicants who have be unsuccessful in the past have decide to follow alternative career routes and many of them received offers from Oxbridge and the like too.
(edited 10 years ago)
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