Does England get a say in Scottish independance?

Do the English public get a say in the Scottish independence affair? If the Scottish public vote were to conclude a "yes" vote, would the English public be given a chance to vote against it? Should we?

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Reply 1

Joeman560

We should but we won't, the reason being, we're English.

Reply 2

Snagprophet

It's up for residents in Scotland to decide and David Cameron, on behalf of all Britons, agreed to it.

Reply 3

C_G

Original post by Joeman560

We should but we won't, the reason being, we're English.

Top ****ing reasons. 10/10

nope

If people in England got a say in the matter and they kept Scotland in the UK despite Scotland wanting out then it would be a pretty ridiculous situation.

So in terms of England getting a say-it would only apply if people in England really wanted to get rid of Scotland rather than keep it against its will.

Reply 6

455409

Original post by Mourinho<3

If people in England got a say in the matter and they kept Scotland in the UK despite Scotland wanting out then it would be a pretty ridiculous situation.

Why?

Reply 7

username207685

Original post by james1211

Why?

Because then it ceases being a union and becomes an occupation.

Reply 8

JamesGibson

Original post by james1211

Why?

All populations have the right to self-detirmination. If Scotland says democratically that they no longer want to be part of the UK, it is akin to imperialism or colonialism to say they have to remain part of the union.

To quote the UN declaration,

All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

I don't think so.

Original post by JamesGibson

Its not quite as clear cut as that. All people's has to be a homogenous grouping. Otherwise people in general would be wanting to self determine.

Reply 11

L i b

Original post by JamesGibson

Nope. There is no legal, or moral, reason why the state would have to separate. States exist to exercise a monopoly on force - that is their raison d'etre.

There is nothing democratic about secession without the consent of the whole state. I remind you that constitutional matters are reserved to the people of the whole UK through their parliament, not devolved in any sense.

Colonialism and imperialism is governing a separate territory outside of your own state. Scotland is an integral part of the United Kingdom.

To quote the UN declaration,

All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

Indeed - try reading some case law on this before trying to interpret it yourself though. A population self-determines within a democratic state where they are treated equally to all others. Self-determination is about having a full say in your government in a way that is not discriminatory, not about a right to secede.

Moreover, there is no particular reason for saying that the Scottish people constitute 'a people' for these purposes - this has been addressed in law and it isn't some sort of endorsement of nationalism.

States can quite legitimately - and indeed, I would suggest ought to - reject nationalism and not extend to supposed 'national' groups extra rights which they deny to others.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 12

L i b

The UK Parliament endorsed the UK Government's statutory instrument - the so-called 'section 30 order' - allowing for the referendum. The referendum is entirely consultative. It would take an Act of the UK Parliament to make Scotland a separate state.

So essentially yes, democratic representatives from all around the UK are making the decisions here, as constitutional matters are reserved rather than devolved.

Reply 13

andrew2209

Yes, we should vote out the Scottish. While we're at it, the Welsh and Northern Irish can go as well, leaving only the England to be an independent nation.

Spoiler

Reply 14