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Why does there have to be a Scottish/English rivalry?

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Reply 40
Original post by sambennett1234
I kind of want to study in Glasgow, but I'm worried that i'll be knifed or something. Does anyone have any experience of living and studying in Glasgow (or even just Scotland)? And how do the Scots treat the English students?


Yeah, ill personally be waiting to smash you on the face with a bottle of Irn Bru!
I have to say that, I may be a Scot and I am proud of being a Scot but there are times where i would prefer to be English, but a specific 'English'. Somewhere from middle England, where they have nice accents as I am trying to lose mine (can't stand the east coast Scottish accent), I even cringe when I here west coast scots, particularly a strong Glaswegian and I cringe :s-smilie: sorry but i have to say English is better, plus on top they have sexier accents than Scots and you cannot argue with that (again particular regions not all of England)
Original post by Gillybop
Yeah, ill personally be waiting to smash you on the face with a bottle of Irn Bru!


Ok i'm staying away, starting to think I'd be safer in an alternative 'developing nation'.... zimbabwe perhaps
Who are the scotch indeed.
Original post by consumed by stuff
Who are the scotch indeed.


Whiskey or eggs
Life would be so dull if we all got along.
Very unsportsmanlike booing the English during the six nations tonight. Glad we won
Original post by sambennett1234
I read this article earlier http://www.buzzfeed.com/georgepitt/20-reasons-why-england-is-better-than-scotland-j74q
and it really gets on my nerves.


In my experience, the "rivalry" exists mainly in the fevered imaginations of SNP activists, and more generally in the less well-educated echelons of Scottish popular discourse. This article is more a reaction to the current situation, the upcoming referendum, and so on. For the most part, English people simply don't think about Scotland that much.

On the other hand, many Scots buy into a kind of glib Scottish nationalism that has emerged in the last couple of decades, which the movie Braveheart exemplifies (hence the SNP promoting Gaelic as the native language of Scotland, when in fact the majority of that country's inhabitants spoke Scots, a language that's basically English with a few dialect variations. Also, the tendency to behave as though the Highland culture is authentic Scottish culture, and completely ignoring the lowlands Scots). This is a kind of bastard nationalism that views itself primarily through the prism of Scotland's relationship with England and a sense of grievance arising thereof, rather than a positive nationalism based on a healthy respect for one's own country and culture.

Being originally from Australia, it reminds me a lot of the putative rivalry between Sydney and Melbourne. Melbournians have a huge chip on their shoulder, and are constantly comparing their city to Sydney and blathering on about how Sydney is superficial and status-obsessed etc. Sydneysiders rarely think too much about it, and see Melbourne as a nice place to visit, but they don't obsess over it. It's also a lot like the anti-London sentiment in the North, many Northerners go on and on about how awful, crowded and status-obsessed London and the southeast are. Londoners simply don't think about it that much.

To the extent that a rivalry can exist, it should be a kind of sibling rivalry; the kind of banter-y, good-natured and ultimately familial relationship you see between the UK and Australia. The SNP tendency to view the union of England & Wales, and Scotland, as exploitative, and the English as carpetbaggers and jack-booted conquerors, is juvenile as it is misconceived.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 48
Original post by sambennett1234
Very unsportsmanlike booing the English during the six nations tonight. Glad we won


I suspect it would be just as likely the Scottish support were booing their own team. Scotland tends to keep its national immaturity and poor manners within the football terraces rather than in Murrayfield.
Reply 49
Original post by MostUncivilised
In my experience, the "rivalry" exists mainly in the fevered imaginations of SNP activists, and more generally in the less well-educated echelons of Scottish popular discourse. This article is more a reaction to the current situation, the upcoming referendum, and so on. For the most part, English people simply don't think about Scotland that much.

On the other hand, many Scots buy into a kind of glib Scottish nationalism that has emerged in the last couple of decades, which the movie Braveheart exemplifies (hence the SNP promoting Gaelic as the native language of Scotland, when in fact the majority of that country's inhabitants spoke Scots, a language that's basically English with a few dialect variations. Also, the tendency to behave as though the Highland culture is authentic Scottish culture, and completely ignoring the lowlands Scots). This is a kind of bastard nationalism that views itself primarily through the prism of Scotland's relationship with England and a sense of grievance arising thereof, rather than a positive nationalism based on a healthy respect for one's own country and culture.

Being originally from Australia, it reminds me a lot of the putative rivalry between Sydney and Melbourne. Melbournians have a huge chip on their shoulder, and are constantly comparing their city to Sydney and blathering on about how Sydney is superficial and status-obsessed etc. Sydneysiders rarely think too much about it, and see Melbourne as a nice place to visit, but they don't obsess over it. It's also a lot like the anti-London sentiment in the North, many Northerners go on and on about how awful, crowded and status-obsessed London and the southeast are. Londoners simply don't think about it that much.

To the extent that a rivalry can exist, it should be a kind of sibling rivalry; the kind of banter-y, good-natured and ultimately familial relationship you see between the UK and Australia. The SNP tendency to view the union of England & Wales, and Scotland, as exploitative, and the English as carpetbaggers and jack-booted conquerors, is juvenile as it is misconceived.


You really have no idea what you're talking about do you?
It's definitely more a sporting rivalry than anything else, same as we English have with the Welsh and Irish. Even that can be overcome though - I don't think anyone is as proud of their national football or rugby teams, for example, as they are of Team GB at the Olympics who were truly world-beaters. When push comes to shove, both England and Scotland proudly share the same democratic, tolerant values, for which we have fought side-by-side over the last few hundred years. The rivalries, while heated, are all good-natured :wink:
Original post by Jordooooom
You really have no idea what you're talking about do you?


Is that the best you can do? Make a positive contribution, agree or disagree, or pipe down. I don't think people are particularly interested in a comment that is the internet forum equivalent of an annoying, vocal whine.

Or perhaps you should stick to simpler subjects, like (judging by your comment history), football, Kanye West and anal sex in porn movies?
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 52
Original post by sambennett1234
I kind of want to study in Glasgow, but I'm worried that i'll be knifed or something. Does anyone have any experience of living and studying in Glasgow (or even just Scotland)? And how do the Scots treat the English students?


If you come to Glasgow, I'll literally take your heart out of your chest and eat it.
Reply 53
I don't really know, I guess it's just historical, really. As others have said, it's like the rivalry between Lancashire and Yorkshire - I honestly have no quarrel with anyone from Yorkshire, but I will happily make a quick jab about them being on "the wrong side of the Pennines" (even though I actually prefer that side, from what I've seen). I don't know tonnes of Scottish people, only around four or five, I'd say, but out of them only one ever makes comments against England which could be considered at all serious. He mainly goes on about how Scotland will thrive off its oil for years, though.

The rivalry isn't helped by people like Alex Salmond, or those who are quick to say, "That athlete/celebrity/inventor/etc. is/was Scottish." The main example is probably Andy Murray, with Salmond waving the Saltire behind Cameron's head once Andy won. He was playing for the UK, and it just looked like a cheap way to try and convert more Scots to nationalism. I wonder how much Salmond cheered for athletes from England, Wales, or Northern Ireland? But one thing's for sure: if Scotland does become independent, we can't expect the rivalry to decrease! Just look at us and France...

(To clarify, I do like France. But I prefer Germany).
I never really perceived one until this scottish independence thing came along. I guess the rivalry probably began after the 80s when the scottish really went quite left wing in terms of politics; each time there's a general election they always, usually via vast majority, vote labour/scottish nationalist, but that doesn't seem to matter at all when they barely have any MPs in comparison with england; if england vote in conservatives, it's very unlikely that their scottish votes/MPs will influence much. therefore, I kind of understand why they'd want independence. but in terms of a cultural rivalry opposed to a political one, did it really ever exist?
Reply 55
Original post by MostUncivilised
Is that the best you can do? Make a positive contribution, agree or disagree, or pipe down. I don't think people are particularly interested in a comment that is the internet forum equivalent of an annoying, vocal whine.

Or perhaps you should stick to simpler subjects, like (judging by your comment history), football, Kanye West and anal sex in porn movies?


And looking at some of your history it is apparent that you are consistent in talking absolute nonsense about subjects you know little about. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull**** as they say.

You said English people don't really think about Scotland? Funny that, with the amount of them whining about not being able to join in on the referendum.
Original post by sambennett1234
I read this article earlier http://www.buzzfeed.com/georgepitt/20-reasons-why-england-is-better-than-scotland-j74q
and it really gets on my nerves.


Indeed. Almost every item on that list is basically another way of saying 'England is bigger than Scotland', or 'I don't know anything about Scotland'. Scottish literature, music, and cuisine are just as prominent as England's when adjusted to our population size. Arthur Conan Doyle, Robert Burns, Stevenson, Hume, Billy Connolly, Adam Smith, John Napier... and of course James Bond is Scottish, has nobody seen Skyfall?
Original post by Silver Arrows


I know quite a few Scots who slag England off at every opportunity. It seems to have flared up more since Scotland want their independence. But I understand their point of view, apparently when events like the European Championships & World cup come round, they get bombarded with adverts telling them to support the Three Lions & to buy the new England kit. Imagine how annoying it would be for us to have another country plastered all over our nation.


How do you feel when you see the EU flag? You'll walk past it very frequently in any major city.
Original post by OMGWTFBBQ
How do you feel when you see the EU flag? You'll walk past it very frequently in any major city.

I'd imagine only in capital cities. I live in Leeds, so it's fine. Don't see what this has to do with thread really.
Original post by Silver Arrows
I'd imagine only in capital cities. I live in Leeds, so it's fine. Don't see what this has to do with thread really.


To counter your point that people are irritated by having another country plastered all over their home country. Most people (unfortunately) don't give a ****.

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