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Why does there have to be a Scottish/English rivalry?

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Original post by OMGWTFBBQ
To counter your point that people are irritated by having another country plastered all over their home country. Most people (unfortunately) don't give a ****.

It was in reference to being told to support another country at the World Cup. I'd have no problem having an EU or Union Jack flag in Leeds/London/Edinburgh, because England & Scotland fall under Europe & the UK. But I would be peeved if, for example, we were told to support Scotland for an event instead because England didn't make it.
Reply 61
Never really heard English people mention the Scots, there's more of a North-South thing in England going on to care about the rest.
Because deep down, you are the same as the Irish.
Original post by MostUncivilised
In my experience, the "rivalry" exists mainly in the fevered imaginations of SNP activists, and more generally in the less well-educated echelons of Scottish popular discourse. This article is more a reaction to the current situation, the upcoming referendum, and so on. For the most part, English people simply don't think about Scotland that much.

On the other hand, many Scots buy into a kind of glib Scottish nationalism that has emerged in the last couple of decades, which the movie Braveheart exemplifies (hence the SNP promoting Gaelic as the native language of Scotland, when in fact the majority of that country's inhabitants spoke Scots, a language that's basically English with a few dialect variations. Also, the tendency to behave as though the Highland culture is authentic Scottish culture, and completely ignoring the lowlands Scots). This is a kind of bastard nationalism that views itself primarily through the prism of Scotland's relationship with England and a sense of grievance arising thereof, rather than a positive nationalism based on a healthy respect for one's own country and culture.

Being originally from Australia, it reminds me a lot of the putative rivalry between Sydney and Melbourne. Melbournians have a huge chip on their shoulder, and are constantly comparing their city to Sydney and blathering on about how Sydney is superficial and status-obsessed etc. Sydneysiders rarely think too much about it, and see Melbourne as a nice place to visit, but they don't obsess over it. It's also a lot like the anti-London sentiment in the North, many Northerners go on and on about how awful, crowded and status-obsessed London and the southeast are. Londoners simply don't think about it that much.

To the extent that a rivalry can exist, it should be a kind of sibling rivalry; the kind of banter-y, good-natured and ultimately familial relationship you see between the UK and Australia. The SNP tendency to view the union of England & Wales, and Scotland, as exploitative, and the English as carpetbaggers and jack-booted conquerors, is juvenile as it is misconceived.


I think you've summed this up really well. I agree that ideally an England/Scotland relationship should be more like a UK/Australia one - respect for each other but with a bit of cheeky banter. I definitely feel like the relationship has become a little more deep rooted and sour in recent years.
Original post by Silver Arrows
It was in reference to being told to support another country at the World Cup. I'd have no problem having an EU or Union Jack flag in Leeds/London/Edinburgh, because England & Scotland fall under Europe & the UK. But I would be peeved if, for example, we were told to support Scotland for an event instead because England didn't make it.


In football, there never tends to be a time where an Englishman cannot support England and has the oppotunity to then support another British team that does make it. Closest example in sport would be Rugby as Wales, Scotland and [however Northern Ireland plays] where they regularly do well compared to in football.
Original post by cel93
If you come to Glasgow, I'll literally take your heart out of your chest and eat it.


I hope your animalistic tendencies are not shared by all your fellow Scots
Original post by Cassius1993
It's definitely more a sporting rivalry than anything else, same as we English have with the Welsh and Irish. Even that can be overcome though - I don't think anyone is as proud of their national football or rugby teams, for example, as they are of Team GB at the Olympics who were truly world-beaters. When push comes to shove, both England and Scotland proudly share the same democratic, tolerant values, for which we have fought side-by-side over the last few hundred years. The rivalries, while heated, are all good-natured :wink:


Haha more proud of team GB than Scotland! What a load of boll**ks.

Team GB makes me feel embarassed not proud. Its so pathetic, stupid wee union jacks and the worst national anthem on Earth playing!

Nearly spat my water out reading your post.

The commonwealth games however... seeing that Saltire and the blue and white gear...now that is something to be proud of.

Team GB is honestly the most pathetic concept in sport. The name doesn't even make sense!

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Original post by MostUncivilised
In my experience, the "rivalry" exists mainly in the fevered imaginations of SNP activists, and more generally in the less well-educated echelons of Scottish popular discourse. This article is more a reaction to the current situation, the upcoming referendum, and so on. For the most part, English people simply don't think about Scotland that much.

On the other hand, many Scots buy into a kind of glib Scottish nationalism that has emerged in the last couple of decades, which the movie Braveheart exemplifies (hence the SNP promoting Gaelic as the native language of Scotland, when in fact the majority of that country's inhabitants spoke Scots, a language that's basically English with a few dialect variations. Also, the tendency to behave as though the Highland culture is authentic Scottish culture, and completely ignoring the lowlands Scots). This is a kind of bastard nationalism that views itself primarily through the prism of Scotland's relationship with England and a sense of grievance arising thereof, rather than a positive nationalism based on a healthy respect for one's own country and culture.

Being originally from Australia, it reminds me a lot of the putative rivalry between Sydney and Melbourne. Melbournians have a huge chip on their shoulder, and are constantly comparing their city to Sydney and blathering on about how Sydney is superficial and status-obsessed etc. Sydneysiders rarely think too much about it, and see Melbourne as a nice place to visit, but they don't obsess over it. It's also a lot like the anti-London sentiment in the North, many Northerners go on and on about how awful, crowded and status-obsessed London and the southeast are. Londoners simply don't think about it that much.

To the extent that a rivalry can exist, it should be a kind of sibling rivalry; the kind of banter-y, good-natured and ultimately familial relationship you see between the UK and Australia. The SNP tendency to view the union of England & Wales, and Scotland, as exploitative, and the English as carpetbaggers and jack-booted conquerors, is juvenile as it is misconceived.


You really do have no idea what your on about! This rivalry is completely unrelated to the SNP...why are you banging on about the SNP? There are Englishman in the SNP for heavens sake.

Load of rubbish. I suggest you don't make a fool of yourself and never repeat that non sense.

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Reply 68
Made a brilliant atmosphere at the rugby in Edinburgh this weekend!

Especially for us English folk :tongue:
natural resources. different industries. almost different countries.
Because then the kids at school would've had to pick on something other than my accent and that would have been too much effort.

Plus Scotland and England have a kind of niggly big-brother-little-brother rivalry. Think Mycroft and Sherlock. And sibling rivalries are fun. :lol: The majority of it is just "banter", but some people are absolute morons over it. I don't think England really cares most of the time, a lot of it is Scotland going "I feel ignored! Oi!". There's a difference between being patriotic and being a prat and some people (both English and Scottish) haven't quite learnt what that is.
(edited 10 years ago)
Because England is better than Scotland.
all to do with the scots inferiority complex.
Reply 73
Original post by AdamskiUK
Because England is better than Scotland.


I was going to say Scotland has better humour but after this...
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/englishman-victim-of-racist-attack-after-watching-calcutta-cup-in-bannockburn-pub.1391984713 Instances like this are actually becoming more and more common in Scotland, it has certainly become far more than a sportsmanlike rivalry
Reply 75
Not our fault they're worse at everything.
Original post by Plainview
Not our fault they're worse at everything.


so true
Reply 77
Original post by Plainview
Not our fault they're worse at everything.


Apart from Snooker, tennis, elephant polo :cool:, managing football teams etc etc

Mind you if our population increased by 50 million we'd pretty much destroy you at anything :smile:
Reply 78
Can one not be Scottish and British in the same way that I would consider myself English and British? It seems to only be Alex Salmond, Nicola Sturgeon and a few of their supporters that don't feel this is the case.

George Osborne is correct on the pound. Thought I'd chime in with this as well.
Original post by Eboracum
Can one not be Scottish and British in the same way that I would consider myself English and British? It seems to only be Alex Salmond, Nicola Sturgeon and a few of their supporters that don't feel this is the case.

George Osborne is correct on the pound. Thought I'd chime in with this as well.


Yes you can!

This isn't about nationalities. Independence or not...we are always going to be Brittish because we live in the island of Britain.

A few supporters isn't correct. The polls have yes at nearly 40%, the yes scotland facebook page has 23000 odd more likes than better together and twitter is the same if not greater for the yes side.

Support is high and passionate. Don't let project fear kid you on that its only raving nationalists voting yes. All I see up here in Aberdeen is Yes scotland car stickers, a few saltires in peoples windows and even taxis covered in yes scotland slogans. I have seen no better together presence whatsoever. In fact...I lie...there is one shop front on union street being funded by BT, its always empty!

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