China and Russia help global defence spending rise for first time in five years

Only Britain and France would contribute, as seen presently. Germany is too cowardly and still has nightmares and war guilt of 1914 and 1939. No country in the EU would up their game, they believe it is everybody but themselves responsibility. It is time to leave the EU, fend for oiurselves and allow the selfish to feel the full force of their mistakes and laziness.

The EU is not working, and moreover, it is undemocratic,

More reason to vote UKIP

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10615466/China-and-Russia-help-global-defence-spending-rise-for-first-time-in-five-years.html

China and Russia are militarising quickly. China’s planned spending on its armed forces will for the first time eclipse the combined budgets of Britain, France and Germany. Beijing has set aside £90 billion ($148 billion) for its military, up more than six per cent on last year, continuing its long-running trend of growing defence spending.

Although many people don't seem to realise it, as they are to wrapped up with their comfy lives of junk food, X factor and clubbing, Britain and the west is rapidly entering a period of deep uncertainty and threat. We need a stronger military with an increased defence budget to secure our freedoms. This does not mean galloping around the Middle East being the special constable, it means having a strong deterrent to stop China and Russia's belligerence. They are both countries that do not regard human rights, and wish to expand their geopolitical military power and dominance. China for example has ideas of annexion and world revolution

If you are naïve enough to think that China and Russia are just increasing their military spending for a bit of fun, you don't deserve the freedoms that you enjoy today.

Do we really want to be poodles of the USA, relying on them for protection? No, we need a strong, independent military, with our own foreign policy that is not dictated to us by the USA.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Uncertintiy and threat? Have you seen the Middle East? Do you have any idea what is going on outside of Europe? China and Russia, along with many Middle Eastern countries are increasing their defence budgets, they aren't doing this for fun you know? Heck, even Australia is increasing their defence budget by 0.5% GDP because they aren't in this comfy European "I'm alright up here no one can touch me" mind-set.

As for our culture, I don't really need to go into this. Any well informed person knows we have an obesity crisis, and many people have "gone soft" on a daily diet of junk food and TV.

China is threatening our allies Japan and South Korea, and also wish for "world revolution" of the communist ideology. Now they may/may not invade, but they will threaten our trade routes, and the freedom of our allies.http://www.lexingtoninstitute.org/chinas-belligerence-fueling-east-asian-military-buildup?a=1&c=1171

Russia regularly threatens our friends and our our airspace. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/9243954/Russia-threatens-Nato-with-military-strikes-over-missile-defence-system.html

Oh and a war with either country does not mean the end of the world, come on, let's not have this childish Armageddon rubbish. This is not a movie.

Anyway, we are already under attack by China. You just don't realise it because you have never been made aware of it/ took an interest in international military affairs.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2357317/British-defence-giant-blames-Chinese-hackers-wave-cyber-attacks.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15516959

More reason to vote UKIP

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10615466/China-and-Russia-help-global-defence-spending-rise-for-first-time-in-five-years.html

China and Russia are militarising quickly. China’s planned spending on its armed forces will for the first time eclipse the combined budgets of Britain, France and Germany. Beijing has set aside £90 billion ($148 billion) for its military, up more than six per cent on last year, continuing its long-running trend of growing defence spending.

Although many people don't seem to realise it, as they are to wrapped up with their comfy lives of junk food, X factor and clubbing, Britain and the west is rapidly entering a period of deep uncertainty and threat. We need a stronger military with an increased defence budget to secure our freedoms. This does not mean galloping around the Middle East being the special constable, it means having a strong deterrent to stop China and Russia's belligerence. They are both countries that do not regard human rights, and wish to expand their geopolitical military power and dominance. China for example has ideas of annexion and world revolution

If you are naïve enough to think that China and Russia are just increasing their military spending for a bit of fun, you don't deserve the freedoms that you enjoy today.

Do we really want to be poodles of the USA, relying on them for protection? No, we need a strong, independent military, with our own foreign policy that is not dictated to us by the USA.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

China's expansion concerns me. The way they are currently acting they are asking for a accidental war to kick off, likely over a territorial dispute because they will bet that America will not back Japan (which it will).

As for Russia right now I believe structural flaws within the country will bring it down before it becomes a major threat to the West. The Russian economy is dominated by the resource sector which is hardly sustainable. The state is completely corrupt and almost incapable of meaningful reform. Until Russia can rebalance its economy and overcome issues within the Russian state I don't believe it poses a direct threat to the West.

Still European governments are far too willing to take an axe to the defence budget, god help the continent if there is ever a large scale war.

Being part of a large block of nations means nothing if they are weak and easily subdued.

I believe that this is an argument for the increased unification of the EU, something that UKIP are staunchly against. The problem is that the rest of the EU, particularly Germany, would need to up their game and start spending more on this combined task force. I fear that we are 70 years too late for them to even contemplate such a move

I agree with you (the Ukip bit aside), we need to increase the defense budget especially around air and naval forces. I'd actually reduce the size of the army but increase the number of special forces.

Your proposal of independence is however flawed given the current state of the UNSC.


The EU as a whole is hardly weak. Several nations are some of the largest arms dealers in the world, there is a sufficient standing army to ensure no threat of ground invasion and the technological superiority of the Uk and France makes an attack from all but the USA likely ineffective.

If you reduce the Armed forces, you reduce the recruiting talent pool for the regular special forces. Less people means less talent to select from.

There is uncertainty within the middle east for sure, but you have not answered the question: How are we (in the west) faced with greater uncertainty and threat? Increased defence spending in countries accross the world does not mean more people want to fight us (Saudi Arabia, say, could increase defence spending to help them repel regional disputes/conflicts).

I was not referring to your comments on culture, but I mainly agree with you on that.



The first link says nothing about a 'communist world revolution', or how China wants to threaten trade routes/the freedom of allies. China is not a communist nation, but at best only a socialist one (with a state that is very capitalist). It's unplausable that China would want to distrupt trade routes as they too need them for their economy (7.4% of exports and 9% of imports, in China, concern Japan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_China).

Yes China is pestering Japan/South Korea, but this is no evidence for us to be worried for our own safety (as you say yourself ''they may/may not invade'' either country).

Out of the links you posted about Russia, only one is relavent (which itself happened back in 2012, with a man who has since been replaced). This is not a sufficient amount of evidence to justify your claim. Also, flying within our airspace does not necessarily mean they are trying to treaten us, or could threaten us.



I would disagree. If either side was losing, what would stop them from using those weapons?

Neither link you've posted states that a majority (or any) of those cyber attacks were from the Chinese government itself, but rather, that most of them were from people in China (individuals, i'd have to expect).

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So, as you have not done in your response to my reply, may you provide evidence that:

- We're in a situation of severe threat, and only a higher military budget will protect us and our freedoms.
- That the Russian/Chinese governments do intend to go to war/invade/inflict damage to us.
- That China wishes to expand its geopolitical military power and dominance towards the west (and the UK in particular), and that it wishes to spread a communist world revolution.

Out of interest, where do you propose that we get the money to increase military spending? You've talked about foreign aid, but that alone will not raise our expenditure to a level higher than that which is in China/Russia.

We don't live in 1910 anymore, we need the EU in order to preserve and strengthen our international 'clout' for decades to come.

I believe that the idea of a wholly unified EU is a necessary and fantastic idea, if obtained flawlessly. Although I have to be honest, it's being executed poorly at present and certain other member states need to sort themselves out and get their motives and interests in order.

It's the right idea being driven by the wrong people.

Only Britain and France would contribute, as seen presently. Germany is too cowardly and still has nightmares and war guilt of 1914 and 1939. No country in the EU would up their game, they believe it is everybody but themselves responsibility. It is time to leave the EU, fend for oiurselves and allow the selfish to feel the full force of their mistakes and laziness.

The EU is not working, and moreover, it is undemocratic,

I'm of the view that foreign conflicts, whether or not they are directly declared upon us are of our interest, and sometimes it is necessary to become involved improve our position for our government and its people. So Saudi Arabia may be increasing their defence budget in order to fend of Iran, but it is in our interest also to exploit this by 1) advertising our arms industry to Saudi and 2) if they do go to war, we can protect trade routes AND influence the outcome of the conflict to make sure Saudi Arabia wins, by force if necessary. This can be expanded in a worldwide scale. Say Japan/ Indonesia v China. It is in our interest to make sure our allies win, and establish an economic foot hold in the defeated countries to benefit ourselves. Economic imperialism if you like.

Moreover, and here is the important bit, we are under extreme threat. Russia and China allow cyber attacks on our country, there is MASSIVE instability in the Middle East, with one side fighting for radical extremist worldwide Jihad, and the other for dictatorship and survival of a tyranny. China has ambitions to become the world superpower, both economically and militarily. If you cannot see this as a threat I can only conclude that you are either a) blind or b) a Chinese poster. The military budget has DOUBLED since 2008, where it was on par with Britain. It is causing an Asian arms race. It's like saying the world is completely peaceful and there are no threats during the Cold War. It's pure naivety. They are building a blue water navy.... why do nations have blue water navies I wonder?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/2827473/Chinas-military-ambition-fuels-Asian-arms-race.html
http://thediplomat.com/2014/01/blue-means-blue-chinas-naval-ambitions

The money would come from various areas including foreign aid, tax evaders, some parts of the welfare budget, and green subsidies (nuclear power is the way forward). I would also like to see money coming from a 10% tax rise from the top 1% of the people (Although I know this would generate only a couple of million pounds, but every penny helps)

We don't need a higher budget than them, we just need to be able to defend our own country, and make a significant contribution in an alliance against them. We don't need anymore nuclear weapons, 160 is more than enough to turn most parts of the world a radioactive desert. What we need is a larger conventional army, larger amount of logistical equipment, more destroyers and frigates (to defend the two carriers) and more fighter and strategic bomber aircraft. Alongside this an increased (but not a decrease in quality) UKSF and a better ability to fight unconventionally against irregular forces, terrorists and cyber warfare. Just 1 - 2% of GDP would do this.

More reason to vote UKIP

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10615466/China-and-Russia-help-global-defence-spending-rise-for-first-time-in-five-years.html

China and Russia are militarising quickly. China’s planned spending on its armed forces will for the first time eclipse the combined budgets of Britain, France and Germany. Beijing has set aside £90 billion ($148 billion) for its military, up more than six per cent on last year, continuing its long-running trend of growing defence spending.

Although many people don't seem to realise it, as they are to wrapped up with their comfy lives of junk food, X factor and clubbing, Britain and the west is rapidly entering a period of deep uncertainty and threat. We need a stronger military with an increased defence budget to secure our freedoms. This does not mean galloping around the Middle East being the special constable, it means having a strong deterrent to stop China and Russia's belligerence. They are both countries that do not regard human rights, and wish to expand their geopolitical military power and dominance. China for example has ideas of annexion and world revolution

If you are naïve enough to think that China and Russia are just increasing their military spending for a bit of fun, you don't deserve the freedoms that you enjoy today.

Do we really want to be poodles of the USA, relying on them for protection? No, we need a strong, independent military, with our own foreign policy that is not dictated to us by the USA.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

With regards to cyber attacks, I have already discussed that in the previous post. Do you have any evidence that China wants to become a world superpower (militarily), and that China wishes to expand it's geopolitical influence towards the UK? Increased defence spending is one thing, but (like i've been asking for the last two posts, at least) do you have any evidence that they'll use this increased budget to harm us specificially?

(We're major trading partners with China, so that seems unlikely)



If the magnitude of a military/defence budget does not matter, then why have you made a big deal out of China ''DOUBLING'' it's military budget? Why must we be against China (would it not be cheaper to just form better relations?).


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Anyway, this still seems very 'what if', and you have not provided a sufficient amount of information (if any) that justifies your initial claims (like how China wants to spread a communist world revolution). To simply say that I am 'blind' and cannot see 'it' is not an appropriate answer.

They don't need to specifically invade Britain to harm us and our interests. They could harm our allies, which would certainly not be in our favour. Like Japan/ South Korea etc. Again, the cyber attacks are coming within China, you would be naïve not to think that the Chinese government don't have a hand in this. They aren't even cracking down on it.

Because doubling a defence budget within 6 years is a very big deal. It is called militarising, and they are doing it fast! It would be all well and good to be friends with them, but 1) they have appalling stance on human rights 2) they are destabilising the region and threatening our allies 2) they do not hold free and fair democratic elections. It would be like us buddying up with some African dictators, but the only difference is the Chinese are richer.

You don't need an official statement (although I am sure there is one somewhere if I looked it up) to see that the Chinese government wish to expand and project its military power which would thereby expand the "communist revolution" since the party in charge is communist. Whenever the USA invades somewhere, they do it to "spread democracy". Just by looking at how their military has developed, with their navy becoming on track to become a blue water navy is pretty much screaming out their intentions.

In what ways would China harm our allies, and how would that harm us and our interests? Once again, ''naive''. If you read the articles about cyber attacks from China (the ones you've posted yourself), they state that we've been able to deal/cope with these attacks. In other words, they do not pose a severe threat to us (as you've suggested).



Saudi Arabia has a pretty bad record on human rights, but in an earlier post you supported them over Iran? Saudi Arabia is also not a democracy. When it comes to peace between two countries, why does it matter if China is democratic or not (or has a good stance on human rights?)?



If there is such a statement: provide one. I'll go ahead and pull the same strings that you have: you're being very 'naive' to think that China is a communist country. At best it's a socialist one, but most state-run industries go towards making money in a market economy for the government (individuals) - a very capitalistic trait.

As for the US, that is irrelavent (how can you be sure that China would act in the same way (in the context of it's own interests)).

China could harm our allies by aggressive manoeuvres, blocking straits, threats and so forth. Easily done with a large armed forces.

We have the capacity to deal the threats we face NOW, not the future. The more the Chinese spend, the harder it becomes to defend ourselves.

Saudi have an appalling reputation to human rights, but it is in our interest for them to win in any future conflict with Iran.

Peace for you and I is not peace for those being abused and facing injustices. Peace for the British in 1938 was not peace for the Jews. Peace for the West in 1994 was not peace for the Tutsis of Rwanda. Peace for some can leave others at peace to perpetrate mass atrocity. This is why I will never become a pacifist. Pacifism is immoral.

We did very well in the past, we have won wars against both countries.