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Is investment banking haram?

So many people are saying that to me and it kinda pisses me off becuase now I might have to change my whole career plan. They say its gambling.

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Reply 1
I guess as long as the source of the money is not haraam. On a seperate note please can you read my attempted proof of the twin prime conjecture.

Here is the link

http://twinprimeconjecture.blogspot.co.uk/?

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(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 2
It causes unimaginable harm to society and the people in it, it's hardly "haram" on some technicality.
Reply 3
theyre jealous
good bankers arent gamblers they straegically place investments in sustainable ways. bad ones decide to bet large sums on high risk high reward.
either way gambling is haram for making money out of someones losses, and if someone were to consider banking haram, they may want to have a look at the capitalist society we live in
It's more calculated risk assessments. I'm also looking to enter than career, the work needed to get into top office though. Been offered a conditional to study in Investment & Financial Risk Management with Cass which is most likely my first choice. I think people connote anything with banking as Haraam because of the dealing with Riba although that's less prominent within IB divisions such as S&T/ Risk Analyst, from my knowledge.
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH
You looney tunes make me laugh
Reply 6
It's definitely not gambling, but it does involve interest doesn't it?
Reply 7
Original post by Abdul-Karim
It's more calculated risk assessments. I'm also looking to enter than career, the work needed to get into top office though. Been offered a conditional to study in Investment & Financial Risk Management with Cass which is most likely my first choice. I think people connote anything with banking as Haraam because of the dealing with Riba although that's less prominent within IB divisions such as S&T/ Risk Analyst, from my knowledge.


Oh so you're not at uni yet?

And I think its best to ask a Muslim IB which hopefully there exists

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(edited 10 years ago)
Who gives a **** :rolleyes:

If it's what you want to do, do it. Changing your whole career plan would be stupid.
Reply 9
Original post by manchesterunited15
Who gives a **** :rolleyes:

If it's what you want to do, do it. Changing your whole career plan would be stupid.


Trust me know what you're saying but its religion...

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Not sure fully what haram and so on is. But not all roles in investment banking are like that. Look into Capital Markets (ECM/DCM) or M&A. It's more strategic and has nothing to do with gambling or interest to a large degree, it adds a lot of value, so I can't see how it would go against your beliefs.

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(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by cooldudeman
Trust me know what you're saying but its religion...

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If religion stops you from living your life properly then you don't want it.
You could say that anything is "gambling" really, because nothing is risk-free.

Starting a business is gambling, because it might not do very well. Leaving your money in a bank is gambling, because it might go bankrupt and lose your money. Buying foreign currency is gambling, because its value might plummet as soon as you get it. Not buying foreign currency is gambling, because the value of your own currency might plummet. Et cetera...

I think the Islamic prohibition on gambling is in reference to things like betting all your money away in a casino where the odds are deliberately stacked against you, and the thing you're betting on (e.g. the spin of a roulette) has nothing to do with the underlying value of the service you're providing to or receiving from anybody.
Reply 13
Original post by Abdul-Karim
It's more calculated risk assessments. I'm also looking to enter than career, the work needed to get into top office though. Been offered a conditional to study in Investment & Financial Risk Management with Cass which is most likely my first choice. I think people connote anything with banking as Haraam because of the dealing with Riba although that's less prominent within IB divisions such as S&T/ Risk Analyst, from my knowledge.

Lol....stop trying to excuse yourself into working in IB under some flimsy argument.

Ask yourself this, is becoming a doctor more moral than becoming a performance analyst? Which would God favour?

I remember my imam saying some things in Islam are frowned upon but not sinful however if you repeatadly continue the act then it does become sinful. So at the very least banking is a sinful industry if we are talking under an Islamic paradigm.

I personally am a very liberal Muslim so it doesn't bother me too much. Although I have decided that I want to spend a few years actually helping society rather than for my own needs (which most of IB is about)
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 14
Original post by tazarooni89
You could say that anything is "gambling" really, because nothing is risk-free.

Starting a business is gambling, because it might not do very well. Leaving your money in a bank is gambling, because it might go bankrupt and lose your money. Buying foreign currency is gambling, because its value might plummet as soon as you get it. Not buying foreign currency is gambling, because the value of your own currency might plummet. Et cetera...

I think the Islamic prohibition on gambling is in reference to things like betting all your money away in a casino where the odds are deliberately stacked against you, and the thing you're betting on (e.g. the spin of a roulette) has nothing to do with the underlying value of the service you're providing to or receiving from anybody.


That is a really good point about starting up a business.

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Original post by Luxray
Lol....stop trying to excuse yourself into working in IB under some flimsy argument.

Ask yourself this, is becoming a doctor more moral than becoming a performance analyst? Which would God favour?

I remember my imam saying some things in Islam are frowned upon but not sinful however if you repeatadly continue the act then it does become sinful. So at the very least banking is a sinful industry if we are talking under an Islamic paradigm.

I personally am a very liberal Muslim so it doesn't bother me too much. Although I have decided that I want to spend a few years actually helping society rather than for my own needs (which most of IB is about)
#

I'm not really interested in becoming a doctor. So what about IB is Haram, specifically? Say in S&T / M&T / Risk Analyst & such divisions. I understand that retail banking has major dealings with interest and Riba is Haram (full stop).

Analysing whether shares are going to go up or down depending on economic performance/companies past date/current elasticity of demand? or making calculated predictions on the FOREX. You haven't a clue what you're talking about. In fact there's Islamic hedging and all sorts. What is that anarchy in bold.. where did you hear this, provide me with an example :lol:.

You could equally say working in sainsbury's is sinful because you may be obliged to serve unlawful goods. Regardless of which is morally right, IB has better wage prospects and that money is better off doing something 'Moral' (as you'd like to put it) than say working as an accountant and not being able to do much with your money. I'm not doubting that there's other careers that are more useful to helping humans but the reality is the financial industries accumulate much more wealth and social development for a country (looking in terms of economics) and to say IB is Haram because being a doctor is better is a weak argument.
Reply 16
Original post by Abdul-Karim
#

I'm not really interested in becoming a doctor. So what about IB is Haram, specifically? Say in S&T / M&T / Risk Analyst & such divisions. I understand that retail banking has major dealings with interest and Riba is Haram (full stop).

Analysing whether shares are going to go up or down depending on economic performance/companies past date/current elasticity of demand? or making calculated predictions on the FOREX. You haven't a clue what you're talking about. In fact there's Islamic hedging and all sorts. What is that anarchy in bold.. where did you hear this, provide me with an example :lol:.

You could equally say working in sainsbury's is sinful because you may be obliged to serve unlawful goods. Regardless of which is morally right, IB has better wage prospects and that money is better off doing something 'Moral' (as you'd like to put it) than say working as an accountant and not being able to do much with your money. I'm not doubting that there's other careers that are more useful to helping humans but the reality is the financial industries accumulate much more wealth and social development for a country (looking in terms of economics) and to say IB is Haram because being a doctor is better is a weak argument.


I have no idea what Im talking about? I was an analyst at an investment bank, I've got a degree in economics and now Im leaving my position to work somewhere where I know im making a difference.

Im using my crap phone to type this message and its difficult to use. I can tell that you aren't really going to change your mind about this so im not going to waste my time typing on my phone.

But one small point I want to make again...i know we can never know how Allah decides thing however when you die and he asks you what you did for most of your career...do you personally think he will reward you for going into IB


Ps. You don't have to sell unlawful goods in places like M&S , the company tries to accomdate each employees religous needs lol
Reply 17
Oh and I didn't say working in IB is haram. I said i believe its frowned upon (makrooh).
Original post by HaQ_mAn_
It's definitely not gambling, but it does involve interest doesn't it?


100% gambling

its like saying taking khat is not haram( just because its not alchohol)

haram as eating bacon or drinking alcohol

deals with usury and gambling( ie hedge funds, USUAGE OF PRIVATE INVESTMENT )


lUXRAY, if you worked in IB you committed haram acts... that is a fact.
Original post by rickfloss
100% gambling

its like saying taking khat is not haram( just because its not alchohol)

haram as eating bacon or drinking alcohol

deals with usury and gambling( ie hedge funds, USUAGE OF PRIVATE INVESTMENT )


lUXRAY, if you worked in IB you committed haram acts... that is a fact.


Not sure if this a troll post.

IB is calculated risk investments (hence the term Risk Analyst) and is similar to how a conventional business works.You buy something and hope to sell it for more & sometimes demand doesn't equate with the higher price you wish to sell it for and make a loss. The LSE works on the basis of Demand & Supply and Economic well-being.. Gambling is when the odds are against you (or matched) & you haven't any solid structural control over the outcome. LSE is more a less a calculated prediction rather than say 'Luck' or having no control over potential wins.

Riba is related to Retail/Corporate banking and not so much in prominent divisions within IB, as it's about Investing. If you're talking about say dividend gains, that's not a form of interest. It's a percentage of profits given to shareholders and fluctuates depending on how well a particular companies doing. Before coming to a conclusion that something is 'Haram', do some research. There are sectors within banking that are Haram, correct. But to accuse the whole industry and sub sectors within as 'Haram' is impermissible in itself. Allah even says:

"And do not say lies for what your tongues describes: this is lawful (HALAL), and that is unlawful (HARAM), to lie about God. Those who lie about God will never succeed. They will have small pleasures (on Earth), and for them is painful retribution" - [Qur'an 16:116-117]

This is just how serious those words we hear uttered every day are. There are Islamic hedging groups and private investors etc.. etc.. so to come out with such a bold statement is somewhat ridiculous. It's clear you haven't thoroughly researched into the industry and I'd advise you to do so.

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