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What languages should I study?

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Original post by Samual
Prove it. I don't think there is any basis for that statement. The writing system is irreverent, Swahili uses the Latin alphabet but it isn't related to any European language.


And your point being...??
Original post by JamesJones777
I am studying French and German As-Level (with other subjects of course) and Russian GCSE. I know that I want to study languages at University but don't know what combination to do.

I have recently fallen in love with Asiatic languages and I know I want to study one.

But Chinese or Japanese...?

The chosen language would be joint honours with French except for Leeds if I apply which will be Chinese or Japanese and Russian. (5 years)

Which language is more useful.

I was initially interested in Japanese and I still love it but there is something about Chinese that really makes me want to study it also.

Any advice?


Chinese ISN'T A LANGUAGE LOL ... Its mandarin or Cantonese that they speak in China.
Original post by yellowranger15
Chinese ISN'T A LANGUAGE LOL ... Its mandarin or Cantonese that they speak in China.


He;s probably referring to "Standard" Chinese, which is based on Mandarin.
Original post by desdemonata
As a language student myself, nobody can make this choice for you and you have to pick whichever language you are motivated to study. You will be expected to do a lot of reading and supplementary work in your own time and if you aren't interested in the language a lot, you'll really struggle to keep up with demand past first year.




So because Romance languages use the same alphabet and are derived from each other, someone who speaks Spanish can understand/read French perfectly? I don't think so. Sure there will be similarities and common vocab, but they are entirely different languages for a reason.

Also, you do realise that "Chinese" can refer to more than one language, and that these themselves are not mutually intelligible?


Thank you for mentioning that, but did you read clearly what I wrote? I said that 'spoken Chinese and Japanese are different' and 'Chinese characters can be seen in Japanese as well', not that someone who speaks Chinese can understand Japanese perfectly - besides, I only pointed out that Japanese was derived from Chinese because whoever I quoted before this incorrectly stated that they 'don't even think they (Chinese and Japanese) are related to each other' - I'm sorry if you misunderstood my statement though :smile:
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by happysmile
Thank you for mentioning that, but did you even read clearly what I wrote? I said that 'spoken Chinese and Japanese are different' and 'Chinese characters can be seen in Japanese as well', not that someone who speaks Chinese can understand Japanese perfectly - besides, I only pointed out that Japanese was derived from Chinese because whoever I quoted before this incorrectly stated that they 'don't even think they (Chinese and Japanese) are related to each other' - I'm sorry if you misunderstood my statement though :smile:


But that's what a previous post claimed, which was what the person you quoted was refuting. They were arguing that they are too distinct to be mutually intelligible and you replied that Japanese is derived from Chinese - which makes it look like you agreed with/were supporting at least to some extent the other poster who claimed people speaking "Chinese" could read Japanese perfectly.
Original post by desdemonata
He;s probably referring to "Standard" Chinese, which is based on Mandarin.


I have to disagree because "Chinese" is really just an overall term for a language(s) spoken in China. It is not a language.
There are hundreds of languages in China ... I've lived in China a while...
Original post by yellowranger15
I have to disagree because "Chinese" is really just an overall term for a language(s) spoken in China. It is not a language.
There are hundreds of languages in China ... I've lived in China a while...


No, Chinese isn't a language, it's a language family. Obviously there is sometimes some confusion as to which of these languages people are referring to, but often it means Mandarin, as that is by far the most common. And as I said, the standardised form of Chinese is based on Beijing Mandarin, so that is the "main" Chinese language and the one that people mean when they say Chinese.

There being 100s of languages doesn't really mean anything. Someone studying Chinese here in the UK will be learning the standardised form of Mandarin, and won't know even the names of any other Chinese dialects beyond Cantonese and possibly a few others.
Original post by desdemonata
No, Chinese isn't a language, it's a language family. Obviously there is sometimes some confusion as to which of these languages people are referring to, but often it means Mandarin, as that is by far the most common. And as I said, the standardised form of Chinese is based on Beijing Mandarin, so that is the "main" Chinese language and the one that people mean when they say Chinese.

There being 100s of languages doesn't really mean anything. Someone studying Chinese here in the UK will be learning the standardised form of Mandarin, and won't know even the names of any other Chinese dialects beyond Cantonese and possibly a few others.


Yes, exactly that was my point initially, I'm glad you understood this. The OP doesn't seem to...
Original post by desdemonata
But that's what a previous post claimed, which was what the person you quoted was refuting. They were arguing that they are too distinct to be mutually intelligible and you replied that Japanese is derived from Chinese - which makes it look like you agreed with/were supporting at least to some extent the other poster who claimed people speaking "Chinese" could read Japanese perfectly.


Once again, it is evident from your response that you did not read or understad what you quoted. I was simply pointing out that Chinese and Japanese are related to each other - Japanese is derived from Chinese, which is the reason why 'Chinese characters can be seen in Japanese' - how on earth you interpreted this as 'people speaking Chinese could read Japanese perfectly' I have no idea, but please ensure you read and understand what is written before quoting :biggrin:
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 29
Original post by JamesJones777
X


Original post by Zelda91
Also don't do Russian - everyone I know who did it is regretting it and people are now seeing that it probably shouldn't have been included in the BRICs in the first place (http://www.newstatesman.com/2014/01/after-brics-mints-austerity-britain-and-big-c)


Just because you know people who regret having done it (what did they expect, jobs using Russian to fall from the sky?) doesn't mean nobody should do it. Russian is the reason why I can apply for the jobs I'm applying for and stand out from the crowd. My level isn't amazing but at least I speak it, and there are a few fields where it's really useful (risk, banking, finance, marketing to name a few).

I'm not sure either why you linked to this article, China may be growing faster than the other three, but does it really mean it's the only country you should focus on? Are you suddenly gonna drop everything and learn Hausa and Yoruba, move to Istanbul or migrate to Mexico just because another acronym was created? Probably not. It might not be as easy to do something related to Brazil or Russia as it looks like it is with China, but there are definitely opportunities if you know where to find them, and less competition.

It's not about following the flow and doing what everyone else is already doing, it's about finding a niche. That way there'll be less competition and you'll be much more valuable than someone who knows what everybody else knows, which I'm sure you already know. There's no guarantee MINT is really gonna happen (it's only a prediction, we may well end up with an I the same way BRIC should be C), and even if it does, it's no reason to put off people from studying Russian. Whether Russia should be a BRIC country or not is particularly irrelevant when it comes to choosing a language, and it should most definitely not be a reason to ditch it.

Regardless of how valuable people think it may be because they choose to believe economists and wrongly interprete the information given, there are tonnes of opportunities to use Russian, the language is incredibly interesting, the country is fascinating, and having Russian means you can do a lot of things from nuclear energy to cyber security, diplomacy, risk, banking, etc. Don't diss it when you haven't done it and you're just relying on other people's views of it, you clearly don't have a representative sample of the Russian learners population large enough to put forward this kind of skewed and harmful opinions.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by happysmile
And your point being...??


The point is you said they're related, they aren't. Either find some proof to backup what you said or stop saying it.
Original post by Samual
The point is you said they're related, they aren't. Either find some proof to backup what you said or stop saying it.


Japanese is derived from Chinese, so they are related. I shall say that because there is evidence to back up this valid statement, just like there is proof that the Romance languages are derived from Latin. :biggrin:
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by happysmile
Japanese is derived from Chinese, so they are related. I shall say that because it is true, and there is proof, just like there is proof that the Romances languages are derived from Latin. :biggrin:


I'm not going to argue with you, you're wrong. Japanese is not derived from Chinese and they're not related - even a little bit of research would tell you that. If you want to remain in ignorance, that's up to you.
Original post by Samual
I'm not going to argue with you, you're wrong. Japanese is not derived from Chinese and they're not related - even a little bit of research would tell you that. If you want to remain in ignorance, that's up to you.


Oh? Because I have done quite a lot of research in this field before and there is evidence that Japanese is derived from Chinese - even a 'little bit of research' would tell you that. :biggrin: But then, if you want to remain ignorant, that's up to you :smile:
Reply 34
Original post by happysmile
Oh? Because I have done quite a lot of research in this field before and there is evidence that Japanese is derived from Chinese - even a 'little bit of research' would tell you that. :biggrin: But then, if you want to remain ignorant, that's up to you :smile:


Right…
Knowing **** all about either language, a quick search on the internet indicates that they come from two different language trees. Romance languages are related to Latin because they derive from the same Indo-European tree. Chinese (Mandarin or Cantonese) belongs to the Sino-Tibetan tree and there's doubts as to which tree Japanese is related, but in any case, it's clearly not the same as Chinese.

I'd love to read whatever "evidence" you have that they're related…
Reply 35
Just can't go wrong with Arabic tbh
Original post by Al-Mudaari
Just can't go wrong with Arabic tbh


I take it you didn't read the OP or just blatantly ignoring the choices OP has?

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Reply 37
Original post by Anatheme
Just because you know people who regret having done it (what did they expect, jobs using Russian to fall from the sky?) doesn't mean nobody should do it. Russian is the reason why I can apply for the jobs I'm applying for and stand out from the crowd. My level isn't amazing but at least I speak it, and there are a few fields where it's really useful (risk, banking, finance, marketing to name a few).

I'm not sure either why you linked to this article, China may be growing faster than the other three, but does it really mean it's the only country you should focus on? Are you suddenly gonna drop everything and learn Hausa and Yoruba, move to Istanbul or migrate to Mexico just because another acronym was created? Probably not. It might not be as easy to do something related to Brazil or Russia as it looks like it is with China, but there are definitely opportunities if you know where to find them, and less competition.

It's not about following the flow and doing what everyone else is already doing, it's about finding a niche. That way there'll be less competition and you'll be much more valuable than someone who knows what everybody else knows, which I'm sure you already know. There's no guarantee MINT is really gonna happen (it's only a prediction, we may well end up with an I the same way BRIC should be C), and even if it does, it's no reason to put off people from studying Russian. Whether Russia should be a BRIC country or not is particularly irrelevant when it comes to choosing a language, and it should most definitely not be a reason to ditch it.

Regardless of how valuable people think it may be because they choose to believe economists and wrongly interprete the information given, there are tonnes of opportunities to use Russian, the language is incredibly interesting, the country is fascinating, and having Russian means you can do a lot of things from nuclear energy to cyber security, diplomacy, risk, banking, etc. Don't diss it when you haven't done it and you're just relying on other people's views of it, you clearly don't have a representative sample of the Russian learners population large enough to put forward this kind of skewed and harmful opinions.


I was just giving some advice based on my experiences and people I know, I did say that they should take away what they will from my writing and it may, indeed, be redundant. I never said anything about learning Hausa or Yoruba (business in Nigeria isn't even conducted in those languages), nor did I say you should just do what everyone else is doing. And I certainly don't advocate listening to economists.

In fact, I'm pretty sure I said the opposite of that. I was just speaking in terms of careers, as I said at the beginning, and not giving an example based on my interests, because I studied languages out of interests as did most people commenting. As that's what most people are commenting about. I thought it would be a good idea to give some limited perspective on the life after uni situation. Even if someone's going to base their whole life decision on my one post, I think it's a bit of a stretch to call it 'harmful'. Give them some credit.
Reply 38
Original post by Anatheme


Regardless of how valuable people think it may be because they choose to believe economists and wrongly interprete the information given, there are tonnes of opportunities to use Russian, the language is incredibly interesting, the country is fascinating, and having Russian means you can do a lot of things from nuclear energy to cyber security, diplomacy, risk, banking, etc. Don't diss it when you haven't done it and you're just relying on other people's views of it, you clearly don't have a representative sample of the Russian learners population large enough to put forward this kind of skewed and harmful opinions.


Also (and I'm sorry to reply twice), but I completely agree with what you said about doing things to do with nuclear energy, banking etc. However, I think that's linked to what I was saying when I said if you are going to do a language, gain some other skills as well. No one expects a job to fall out of the sky, and I did mention that chinese makes me stand out. I was mainly trying to talk about using the language + knowledge, which is what a lot of people believe you can do when you leave university, but is not always the case if you don't have other skills/experience to recommend you. Again, I'm sorry I've clearly offended you, I can only speak from my own experiences.
Reply 39
Original post by Zelda91
Also (and I'm sorry to reply twice), but I completely agree with what you said about doing things to do with nuclear energy, banking etc. However, I think that's linked to what I was saying when I said if you are going to do a language, gain some other skills as well. No one expects a job to fall out of the sky, and I did mention that chinese makes me stand out. I was mainly trying to talk about using the language + knowledge, which is what a lot of people believe you can do when you leave university, but is not always the case if you don't have other skills/experience to recommend you. Again, I'm sorry I've clearly offended you, I can only speak from my own experiences.


I did feel quite offended by the "don't study Russian" comment, not gonna lie :p:. I understand that not everyone may end up using it in their careers, but I'm not sure why they'd regret it? Or did they just regret picking this language over another? I live in a world of happy fluffy bunnies where languages are this amazing thing and I strongly believe that any foreign language is useful (and certainly better than no foreign language!), so reading comments like "don't do this" or "do that" gets on my nerves because I think people should pick their language based on whether they are passionate about it, otherwise it makes learning a language a very tiresome process. I definitely got carried away here, although a chunk of my post was for the benefit of the OP, I wasn't necessarily arguing against your point. I'll also admit I only saw the "don't do Russian" part and didn't actually read the rest, which I should have probably done…

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