Vince Cable: Teachers know &#x27;absolutely nothing&#x27; about world of work

Original post by Mickey O'Neil

Reply 45

Welsh Bluebird

Original post by Mr M

Sorry. Not had a good day today. Due to that I took your post as being abrupt rather than just a general heads up. Apologies again.

Reply 46

Original post by Mickey O'Neil

Sorry. Not had a good day today. Due to that I took your post as being abrupt rather than just a general heads up. Apologies again.

I was being facetious but still thought your reply was a little disproportionate. No need to apologise though.

:shakehand:

Reply 47

Kvothe the Arcane

Original post by Mickey O'Neil

Original post by Mr M

LOL

Reply 48

Original post by Classical Liberal

Firstly, 8:00 - 17:00 length of day is standard in professional work. To use that as a case to show how hard teachers work is counterproductive. Secondly, most teachers are not spending time doing huge amounts of lesson planning. The teachers who are just starting out obviously invest a lot of time into preparing, but once you've mastered it, you don't need to do lots of planning. And then each year you teach the same things the same way, over and over again, with minor adjustments for things like courses changing.

The hardest working teachers do not work as hard as other professions. They simply can't by virtue of teachers having massive holidays. They literally get the whole summer off. Breaks inbetween terms and long breaks over Christmas and Easter.

Are you kidding? Lesson planning takes ages for various reasons. Teachers do not recycle their own lesson plans. Perhaps for certain subjects but not for all (English especially). Planning includes how to assess students, worksheets, making sure your lessons are beneficial to all your students, marking, resources preps, etc. Each year you don't teach the same thing. Most teachers (apart from HoD) do not get a say in what classes they shall be having for the following year - it's given to them. And in mainstream schools, they most likely have sets in all years. So, they would be teaching something new or different each year, therefore constantly readjusting resources that suits their style of teaching and their pupils.

Oh my God, you can now sound so ignorant. Do you not know what these breaks are for? These are for assessing... Do you wanna know how long it takes to mark books AND assessments for GCSE top set (a-a*) 30-34 students? It would take more than 20 hours to mark, literally. Now you obviously get the "tick and flick" strategy, but marking, especially English books is a time consuming. You also have to plan for the next Half-Term. You don't simply get time off. Most schools across England have a 5 period-day timetable, over a 2 week rota and teachers who haven't got a specific responsibility in their department usually has one 10 hours contact time over that fortnight (5 frees a week)... you really think they have to do all their marking, meetings, standardizations, assessments, planning, catching up with students, detentions, form tutor, student progress all in that one week? No they don't. That's why they get "long holidays" it's so they can catch up on all the stuff they couldn't do during the school term. The only real break they get is about 4-5 weeks off during the 6-weeks, then the last week would be preparing for their new classes, sorting out their classrooms and etc.

Don't even think about tying to make teaching sound easy. How would you want to be responsible for about 150 students you teach throughout the year and then getting blamed because by parents, government and the media (and people like you who know nothing about Education and school) that students didn't get their results because THEY didn't REVISE. Teachers, teach, provide students with the knowledge. Teachers wouldn't be good teachers if they gave their students the answer. This is why teachers deserve a pay-rise. It's because people like you undervalue teachers' hard work, their efforts and values. Of course not ALL teacher deserve it because let's face it - there are crap teachers out there, but then again there's amazing teachers who put their heart and soul into it because they love what they do and it shows when their genuine happiness is portrayed to you on results day. Yes, you may of had a rubbish time at school or a good one but if you don't know what goes on when you step outside of that classroom, then you have no idea. I don't see how regular jobs like office works and people calling me up for crap is helping society, do you? But I know teachers are making a contribution - and that's all that counts.

Reply 49

Original post by Complex Simplicity

It must be hard being a teacher. How you guys have the patience to continually educate those who are so clearly ignorant is astounding. It's like don't you get that the person you are explaining calculus to can't do basic addition? Don't you get that the person you are explaining orbital theory to doesn't know what a periodic table is? So now you have to teach them the basic as well as the more complex stuff at the same time. Astounding you guys do an amazing job.

You don't start with the complex stuff first. You don't teach top set year 7 GCSE stuff first. You work your way up. You don't give Year 7 Hamlet to read, you give them something simple such as A Midsummer's Nights Dream.

Have you not heard of Key Stages(?)

Reply 50

Original post by Guy Secretan

No academies only represent a minority of schools, it is still far more difficult to sack a teacher than a comparative job in the private sector. Also as teachers are their own boss they can basically be rude to pupils and get away with it, there is not the same management structure in schools that exist in most businesses. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-26423130
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10464617

I really doubt that. In some schools, unfortunately yes that is true. However I know that last year, I found my AS-level English Language teacher a total bitch. We had many falling out - she was rude, I was rude so I ended up complaining about her. They did a review, lesson observation asked other students what she was like and after that, she greatly improved. Still avoid eye contact in the corridors, but she improved and only 3 people got Cs whilst 11 got Bs and 4 got As. She was a new teacher, but the school dealt with the issue myself and my peers had with her. They will not get away with it if the school cares. Some do, others don't. It's the same as any other profession - I've had good doctors, and bad, horrible rude ones. Just the way life goes I'm afraid.

Reply 51

Original post by Mr M

I appreciate the support but you clearly have little idea what teachers do either.

:rofl:

at "set up the projector".

That was a bit uncalled for to be fair.

Reply 52

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/feb/28/primary-school-teachers-work-60-hour-week

Original post by Cool_JordH

That was a bit uncalled for to be fair.

Nonsense.

Reply 53

Classical Liberal

Original post by Cool_JordH

Are you kidding? Lesson planning takes ages for various reasons. Teachers do not recycle their own lesson plans.

Complete trash.

Myself and all of my family went to the same school. And my mum helped with our homework. What is funny is that her younger children were being set and taught almost indentical things to her eldest. There is a compelling reason that doing this makes sense, you perfect the system after years. But let's not think that most teachers are coming up with new and innovative lesson plans every year. Frankly, that would be stupid.

Perhaps for certain subjects but not for all (English especially). Planning includes how to assess students, worksheets, making sure your lessons are beneficial to all your students, marking, resources preps, etc.

Exactly, and after a few years of experience you'll master such skills and repeat things from earlier years. Obviously, English teachers still need to spend time marking essays which is time consuming. But they planning and structure should be mastered after a few years.

Oh my God, you can now sound so ignorant. Do you not know what these breaks are for? These are for assessing... Do you wanna know how long it takes to mark books AND assessments for GCSE top set (a-a*) 30-34 students? It would take more than 20 hours to mark, literally. Now you obviously get the "tick and flick" strategy, but marking, especially English books is a time consuming. You also have to plan for the next Half-Term. You don't simply get time off. Most schools across England have a 5 period-day timetable, over a 2 week rota and teachers who haven't got a specific responsibility in their department usually has one 10 hours contact time over that fortnight (5 frees a week)... you really think they have to do all their marking, meetings, standardizations, assessments, planning, catching up with students, detentions, form tutor, student progress all in that one week? No they don't. That's why they get "long holidays" it's so they can catch up on all the stuff they couldn't do during the school term. The only real break they get is about 4-5 weeks off during the 6-weeks, then the last week would be preparing for their new classes, sorting out their classrooms and etc.

I have never known any student, ever, to have work marked over the summer Holidays or been given any lessons during that time. Get real mate. How can you possibly even teach when you don't see you students for such an extended period of time.

Reply 54

Classical Liberal

Original post by Mr M

Frankly, if you are working 60 hours a week as a primary school teacher, you are almost certainly incompetent. For godsake, primary school finishes at like 3:30.

Reply 55

Original post by Classical Liberal

Frankly, if you are working 60 hours a week as a primary school teacher, you are almost certainly incompetent. For godsake, primary school finishes at like 3:30.

Well that's 200,000 people put firmly back in their place. Nice work.

Reply 56

Classical Liberal

Original post by Mr M

Well that's 200,000 people put firmly back in their place. Nice work.

No wonder the countries going to **** :lol:

Btw, have TSR put you on commission yet for all those papers you do on here? I actually told one of the TSR staff, in person, that they should really pay you.

Reply 57