The Student Room Group

You CAN'T justify anti-homosexual views.

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Original post by JayJay-C19
Yes, that was the general idea.


Oh, okay. I find that pretty difficult to read into what you said.
Reply 61
Original post by TurboCretin
Oh, okay. I find that pretty difficult to read into what you said.


Well, I stated that exact point just underneath the one you quoted but okay.
Original post by JayJay-C19
Well, I stated that exact point just underneath the one you quoted but okay.


Just went back to re-read. It was actually above it, but I'm sorry, you're right, it was there.

By the way, I don't know how you mean for these posts to come across, but they seem a little abrasive.
Reply 63
Original post by TurboCretin
Just went back to re-read. It was actually above it, but I'm sorry, you're right, it was there.

By the way, I don't know how you mean for these posts to come across, but they seem a little abrasive.


I want them to come across as they are. Not abrasive. I just get so angry over things like this, it shouldn't even be a problem nowadays.
Reply 64
It's weird how we're talking about homophobia, yet nobody has even bothered to define it. Though it's obvious from the tone in the thread that homophobia is essentially -If you don't think homosexuality is like the best thing ever, you're a homophobe.

Homophobia is defined as any sort thought that opposes homosexuality. If I support traditional marriages, I must be a homophobe. If support traditional families, I'm a homophobe. It goes on like that to ad infinitum.

The truth is that homosexual in my opinion is degenerated. This is just based on my values and my ideals about what constitutes as decent human behavior. Feel free to disagree, since that's what a plurality of opinions is all about.

Now, I'm not interested in some social policing that'll put gays in jail or whatever, of course not. What two people do is their business not mine. But gays want something more than that - they want societal acknowledgment, they want society to not only condone homosexuality, but to also promote it. Everyone has to like it and if you don't, then must be a homophobe and by extension, an incredibly horrible person.

I tolerate homosexuality, but I don't like it or respect it. After all, the only things you can tolerate are things you don't agree with - if you agreed and respected homosexuality, then there's no need to tolerate it.
(edited 10 years ago)
Islam doesn't go against homosexuality, but it does go against anal sex which is haraam and forbidden. So you can be gay, but dont engage in sex which we was never made for. Thats why we have penises and vaginas.
Reply 66
Original post by Zorgotron

The truth is that homosexual in my opinion is degenerated. This is just based on my values and my ideals about what constitutes as decent human behavior. Feel free to disagree, since that's what a plurality of opinions is all about.

What's indecent about two people of the same gender dating?

Original post by Dr.Khan
So you can be gay, but dont engage in sex which we was never made for.

Oh how generous :rolleyes:
Reply 67
It's perfectly possible to justify homophobia - it just depends on what your values are.
Reply 68
Original post by Skip_Snip
What's indecent about two people of the same gender dating?


While I'm not a christian, I do sympathize with its moral philosophy. What they teach is that in the natural order of things, everything has a clear purpose. The purpose of sexual intimacy and sex in general is the continuance of family, blood and society. The pleasure involved is only an added bonus.

Of course, it's obvious that this view is greatly antiquated in the modern world, I do not disagree. It pains me to see that aspects of reproduction and pleasure have been completely separated in the context of sex. I despise our culture of promiscuity, our culture that promotes mindless pursuit of instant gratification. Homosexual behavior (I mean the sexual side) is something that is only orientated to carnal pleasure. It has no reproductive element and is therefore a perversion of what sex, in my opinion, should be about. Men are for women and women are for men.

Virtues like self-control, self-mastery and discipline are aspects that have become irrelevant and shunned in modern culture. Why be virtuous when I can slap on a condom and continue indulging in my carnal desires like an animal that operates on instinct, not like human that operates on free will.

This is simply my view, I don't force it on anyone - I simply state them. People can agree or disagree and criticize.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Zorgotron
It's weird how we're talking about homophobia, yet nobody has even bothered to define it. Though it's obvious from the tone in the thread that homophobia is essentially -If you don't think homosexuality is like the best thing ever, you're a homophobe.

Homophobia is defined as any sort thought that opposes homosexuality. If I support traditional marriages, I must be a homophobe. If support traditional families, I'm a homophobe. It goes on like that to ad infinitum.

The truth is that homosexual in my opinion is degenerated. This is just based on my values and my ideals about what constitutes as decent human behavior. Feel free to disagree, since that's what a plurality of opinions is all about.

Now, I'm not interested in some social policing that'll put gays in jail or whatever, of course not. What two people do is their business not mine. But gays want something more than that - they want societal acknowledgment, they want society to not only condone homosexuality, but to also promote it. Everyone has to like it and if you don't, then must be a homophobe and by extension, an incredibly horrible person.

I tolerate homosexuality, but I don't like it or respect it. After all, the only things you can tolerate are things you don't agree with - if you agreed and respected homosexuality, then there's no need to tolerate it.


What a load of nonsense.

What does "support traditional marriages / families" mean?

You say you don't like or respect homosexuality, but what's it to you? As you say, it's not your business. It's like saying "I don't like or respect darts" meaning I wouldn't want to watch or play it. But no-one's asking you to watch or take part in homosexuality, so this doesn't make sense. And how do you think society is encouraging homosexuality?

Your post really suggests that you are a homophobe - which I would define as being anti-gay - as you say it is degenerated (meaning?), and you imply it is not "decent human behaviour."

At the heart of most anti-gay attitudes is the idea that it causes harm. Do you think think it causes harm, and if so, what?
Original post by Zorgotron
The purpose of food is the provision of energy. The pleasure involved is only an added bonus.

Of course, it's obvious that this view is greatly antiquated in the modern world, I do not disagree. It pains me to see that aspects of eating and pleasure have been completely separated in the context of food. I despise our culture of gastronomy, our culture that promotes mindless pursuit of instant gratification. Cooking nice food is something that is only orientated to carnal pleasure. It ...is therefore a perversion of what food, in my opinion, should be about.

Virtues like self-control, self-mastery and discipline are aspects that have become irrelevant and shunned in modern culture. Why be virtuous when I can slap a pizza in the oven and continue indulging in my carnal desires like an animal that operates on instinct, not like human that operates on free will.

This is simply my view, I don't force it on anyone - I simply state them. People can agree or disagree and criticize.


Hmm.
Reply 71
Original post by chazwomaq
What a load of nonsense.

What does "support traditional marriages / families" mean?

You say you don't like or respect homosexuality, but what's it to you? As you say, it's not your business. It's like saying "I don't like or respect darts" meaning I wouldn't want to watch or play it. But no-one's asking you to watch or take part in homosexuality, so this doesn't make sense. And how do you think society is encouraging homosexuality?

Your post really suggests that you are a homophobe - which I would define as being anti-gay - as you say it is degenerated (meaning?), and you imply it is not "decent human behaviour."

At the heart of most anti-gay attitudes is the idea that it causes harm. Do you think think it causes harm, and if so, what?


I don't respect homosexuality in the same way I don't respect people who engage in BDSM or self-mutilation. However, they can still do it if they want - what they can't do is expect me to sing praises and support them when they do it. I've already stated my views and values and from there on I've come to the conclusion that homosexual behavior is immoral.

When I say I don't respect homosexuality, I only mean homosexual behavior. Gays are people and I have no problem with them. Homosexuals and homosexual behavior are two different things - a straight person can also engage in homosexual behavior without even being gay. Whether you act on your orientation is up to you.

Homosexuality is encouraged by the way the opposition to homosexuality is treated. The current paradigm is that anyone who doesn't support homosexuality is a bigot and a backwards thinking person. To liberals, there is no other view - you either support homosexuality or you're an evil person. Anyone who dares to take a more socially conservative approach is vilified.

And the reason why I express my views is that we live in a demoracy where we have a plurality of opinions and I can state them regardless of whether you find it to be nonsense, disgusting or simply irrelevant. You of course can disagree and criticize me, but you can't tell me to shut up and ostracize me from public debate.

And once again, I haven't called for the illegalization of homosexual behavior - all I said was that if they do choose to behave in such way, don't expect me to love them for it.
Reply 72
Original post by chazwomaq
Hmm.


Gluttony.
Reply 73
I love we're all supposed to be tolerant, but someone who is homophobic (or racist, sexist, ect), means we automatically disregard their opinions because we see them as the 'bad guy'.

At the same time - their opinions are no less valid than mine. All the racists I've met and drank with, racism isn't about hate - people joined neo-nazis because they were sick of getting treated differently (and honestly it is much worse in certain regards) to "pakis and *******" and all that crap. I could of easily grew up into a neo-nazi in my hometown, after being racially slagged when I was 8 years old, then getting in trouble for hitting the boy - despite the fact if I called him a racist name and he hit me, I'd be an ******* 'cause I'm white.

It's the same with homophobia. The majority of homophobes I've met don't really care about where someone sticks their dick - they're just angry about the fact that from their Point of View they get treated objectively worse than gay guys. If someone gets into a fight with a gay guy instead of it being a fight between to goddamn adults - it's suddenly a hate crime, regardless of who starts it. I've actually had a mate start a fight with someone for rejecting his advances (because he wasn't gay), then got the police involved calling it a hate crime.

Homophobia can be justified. Just because you or I don't agree with it doesn't mean it's an any less valid opinion.

Note: All of this is anecdotal, so when someone gives me the obligatory study saying everything I'm saying is a load of ****, fair enough.
Original post by Zorgotron
what they can't do is expect me to sing praises and support them when they do it. I've already stated my views and values and from there on I've come to the conclusion that homosexual behavior is immoral.


But why is it immoral? Because it doesn't lead to reproduction? If so, are you anti condoms (even in marriage)? Are you anti sex outside of the late follicular phase of the menstrual cycle?

Do you listen to music or watch TV? Would you consider that immoral because your ears and eyes weren't designed for listening to man-made recorded sounds and watching moving pictures?

The current paradigm is that anyone who doesn't support homosexuality is a bigot and a backwards thinking person.


But what do you mean by support? Who is asking your to "sing their praises"? The thought of gay sex is aversive to me as a straight guy, but I wholeheartedly agree that barriers to life as a gay person and prejudice against them is wrong and should be ended. Is that support?

It seems to many, that many anti-gay people are backwards thinking and bigoted. But it's hard to tell unless they carefully clarify their views.

And the reason why I express my views is that we live in a demoracy where we have a plurality of opinions and I can state them regardless of whether you find it to be nonsense, disgusting or simply irrelevant. You of course can disagree and criticize me, but you can't tell me to shut up and ostracize me from public debate.


Er, OK?
Original post by Gjaykay
they get treated objectively worse than gay guys.

If that's their view, they are sadly mistaken.

I've actually had a mate start a fight with someone for rejecting his advances (because he wasn't gay), then got the police involved calling it a hate crime.


Was your mate the gay one, or was he the straight guy who rejected the advance?
Reply 76
Original post by chazwomaq
If that's their view, they are sadly mistaken.

Was your mate the gay one, or was he the straight guy who rejected the advance?


Depends where you are man, there are places that do objectively treat gay guys much better than straight guys. I must say though, lesbians are pretty much universally accepted by guys in my area - it's women who have the problem, calling them dykes and slagging them and such. Though that was an interesting tidbit :smile:
The gay one, sorry my wording is a little off.
Original post by chazwomaq
Hmm.


Don't you know that on TSR things must only be used or engaged in for their primary functions, and any pleasured derived from them turns us into savage beasts who are no better than animals?

The fun must be regulated, people.
Reply 78
Original post by KingStannis
Greta I got a bloody blue card what did I ****ing say? I can't even breath.


something about exorcising gay people ? except you did not call them "gay people"
Reply 79
Original post by Magistl
"completely unnatural." Do your research, Human's aren't the only animals that partake in homosexuality. Hormones play a major role in this.

Really?

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