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How valuable is a 2:1 degree from a Russell Group university?

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Reply 80
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
But say a job relevant to my degree is advertising they are more likely to hire someone who has spent the last year on a minimum wage job compared to someone who has sat on their arse for a year.


How do you know? Employers should pick based on the person in front of them, not their level of experience

I'm not going to suck up by doing things I don't want to do
Original post by pmc:producer
A 2:1 from any University isn't worthless. It opens doors to apply for jobs you couldn't otherwise apply for. The type of job that'll see the OP getting his £40K relatively quick in comparison to 'climbing the ladder' straight from school.

Of course a degree alone won't get you a job - but I'm sure he knew that. I'm sure he knew there was more to job interviews than 'Hello, my name is X and I have a 2:1'.


With respect, why did you bother writing this? It has nothing to do with what I've written. Can you see how annoying it is for someone to quote you implying you've said something ridiculous?

i clearly didn't say or imply it was worthless. I just said it doesn't distinguish people as everyone has them. They are obviously completely separate points.
Reply 82
Original post by Reue
I've never heard of a "high 2.1" and certainly never been asked for an actual transcript! Anyone that believes a company is going to distinguish between a 68% 2.1 and a 64% 2.1 is clutching at straws.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but out in the real world, your degree mark only gets you past the HR automatic screener. It's your work experience and interview that differentiates you.

I suggest your friend doesn't mention their 'high' 2.1, it makes them sound like a fool.


I am clearly referring to someone applying straight out of university. I'm also discussing graduate schemes where from my experience the overall mark is used in the decision process.

After a period of employment your degree will not be important. I have also agreed that the degree is an entry requirement with other experience and skills required. I'm not quite sure why your telling me I'm incorrect when I am currently in the process of applying/interviewing and I have to provide this information.

As for the transcript if I am successful in obtaining a role, I do have to send this to them to prove I attained the degree classification I have stated. Especially as at the moment it is only a predicted grade. There is quite a big difference to employers in my field between 64% and 68% and they do ask for the percentage. The former shows you probably just managed to get a 2.1 and possibly had a couple of poor modules whereas the latter suggests a consistent high standard.
Reply 83
Original post by emma_829
There is quite a big difference to employers in my field between 64% and 68%


Unfortunately I suspect this is impossible to prove/disprove, otherwise i'd call it complete BS :smile:
Original post by Reue
Unfortunately I suspect this is impossible to prove/disprove, otherwise i'd call it complete BS :smile:


It seems to be becoming more usual recently (I mean even in the last couple of years) for first-job candidates to be asked to provide transcript as well as certificate.

I dunno, but I can't see a rationale for this unless it is to distinguish between candidates with the same classification.
Reply 85
Original post by cambio wechsel
I dunno, but I can't see a rationale for this unless it is to distinguish between candidates with the same classification.


Prehaps, although the difference between 4% is likely to be tiny compared to the differences brought up by work experience, interviewing and personality etc.

I dont doubt that they ask for transcripts, I'm doubting the claim that it would make any significant difference.
Original post by Reue
the difference between 4% is likely to be tiny...


the difference (for practical purpose) is enormous if those grades are 58 and 62, and sizeable if they're 68 and 72.

Possibly the graduate employers, overwhelmed with 2.1s that should otherwise have to be sifted and sorted by the sort of qualitative contextual measure you suggest, are trying to force a de facto sub-dividing of the upper division of the second class.

If right, I think this is only madness. But the thing is that I don't think it implausible that it might be right that some are doing it. Time was when I wouldn't believe you if you'd told me that universities would want the UMS for A-levels.
Reply 87
Original post by cambio wechsel

Possibly the graduate employers, overwhelmed with 2.1s that should otherwise have to be sifted and sorted by the sort of qualitative contextual measure you suggest, are trying to force a de facto sub-dividing of the upper division of the second class.


Hmm, maybe that is the case.
Original post by Reue
I've never heard of a "high 2.1" and certainly never been asked for an actual transcript! Anyone that believes a company is going to distinguish between a 68% 2.1 and a 64% 2.1 is clutching at straws.


It may be relatively rare, but some do, e.g.
"Good 2:1 from an RG uni" http://www.totaljobs.com/JobSearch/JobDetails.aspx?JobId=59100187&Keywords=%22good+2%3a1%22
"Good 2:1" http://www.totaljobs.com/JobSearch/JobDetails.aspx?JobId=59099353&Keywords=%22good+2%3a1%22+
"1st or high 2:1" https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/GetJob.aspx?JobID=6473912&JobTitle=Paralegal&rad=20&rad_units=miles&pp=25&sort=rv.dt.di&vw=b&re=134&setype=2&tjt=&where=&q=%22high+2%3a1%22&AVSDM=2014-03-04T09%3a03%3a00-05%3a00
Reply 89
Original post by Origami Bullets
It may be relatively rare, but some do, e.g.


Oh interesting, although no definition of what a 'good 2.1' might be.

Also all of those roles require additional post-grad qualifications or work experience, Slightly depressing to see the salaries offered. £22k for a Physics Masters?!
Reply 90
Original post by JamesTheCool
An English (well, a Bachelor of Arts) degree from basically any university that normally scores higher than Cardiff, Liverpool and Glasgow in the league tables.


With English + PGCE you can get yourself a job in teaching. Pays 35-40k in a state school.

Alternatively you may try getting a PhD in the US, they do accept people with Bachelors' degrees. A place that is not too fancy may take you in provided you have a workable thesis and some publications.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Reue
Oh interesting, although no definition of what a 'good 2.1' might be.

Also all of those roles require additional post-grad qualifications or work experience, Slightly depressing to see the salaries offered. £22k for a Physics Masters?!


No definition, though my uninformed opinion would be that a good 2:1 would be somewhere in the 63-66% range, and a high 2:1 would be somewhere in the 67%+ range. That said, if they haven't defined it, I'm sure that there's some movement in the boundaries anyway, depending on the candidate's other qualities.

Most roles do require some sort of work experience and / or PG qualifications though - I haven't seen a job that said "no experience necessary" (either expressly or by omission) since I applied for one of those scammy jobs getting people to switch energy supplier on the doorstep during my gap year.
Original post by Joel R
I'm sorry, but I just don't think that's true. The Oxbridge degrees in a number of subjects are classified with respect to the other students at Oxford/Cambridge, who are most likely some of the most intelligent/hard-working people in the world. More than that, I'm well aware that I'm doing far more work than people at other unis in the first year of my degree (Cambridge NatSci; I'm doing split Bio/Physics, and have covered the same volume of physics as people doing straight physics at Manchester, and more maths than them). I have to say I think it's harder to get a 2.i at the top unis.


I'm sure you cover more stuff at Oxford and Cambridge, but you get a lot more help too.
Reply 93
Original post by Reue
Unfortunately I suspect this is impossible to prove/disprove, otherwise i'd call it complete BS :smile:


Are you willing to retract you previous statement that I am talking BS now, thanks to individuals providing evidence that employers do differentiate between the percentage of a 2.1.

From what I can tell it becomes important when there are two candidates they like and can't decide between. This may be that both candidates have similar levels of experience and good applications/interviews, the employers then use the overall grade to select an individual. I do agree its rare but it does happen. I also know that while some employers state they want a high 2.1 this is only a general rule and there are always exceptions for people with mitigating circumstances or better experience/skills. In general though if your aiming for a 2.1 its probably better to aim for 65% or higher.

I can only use my university as a guide but we class 60-63.9 as low 2.1, 64-67.9 as mid 2.1 and 68-69.9 as a high 2.1. Of course employers may have a completely different standard as to what classes as a good 2.1.

I completely agree with you that after a few years of graduating employers will not care what you got, they will be more interested in how you have performed in actual employment. But for your first job it can be a factor!
Reply 94
Original post by emma_829
Are you willing to retract you previous statement that I am talking BS now, thanks to individuals providing evidence that employers do differentiate between the percentage of a 2.1.


Not at all. Nowhere has anywhere defined what a 'good' 2.1 might be. Infact, I'd hazard a guess that many of the 'good' 2.1 requirements actually relate to university rather than percentage.
Original post by Reue
Not at all. Nowhere has anywhere defined what a 'good' 2.1 might be. Infact, I'd hazard a guess that many of the 'good' 2.1 requirements actually relate to university rather than percentage.



Warwick puts numbers to it: http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/services/academicoffice/quality/categories/examinations/marking/guidance/teacherguidance/
Reply 97
Every course should be a pass or fail like Medicine. I personally think people with 2:1 are a waste of tax payer's money.
Reply 98
Original post by Reue
So they do :smile:


I guess that still doesn't prove to you that employers use similar figures does it?
Reply 99
Original post by Red one
Every course should be a pass or fail like Medicine. I personally think people with 2:1 are a waste of tax payer's money.


I dread to think what your opinion is of people with a 2.2 or 3rd. :smile:

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