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Hassan Mohammed becomes first parent in UK charged with Female Genital Mutilation

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Original post by lillith
Really? This is disgusting, our government should be making a huge deal of catching these disgusting people. Poor French girls, my heart goes out to them.


It has been illegal in the UK since 1985

4000 cases have been identified in the UK (collected from a freedom of information request at UK hospitals and not all replied)

In London, a women’s organisation, Imkaan, has carried out research suggesting that 7,000 women affected by FGM give birth in the city each year,

This is the first attempt at a prosecution
Reply 21
Original post by CryptoidAlien
why are third world cultures so violent, inhumane and brutal? with little civilized attributes and lacking capacity on the basis of understanding, shame, honour and responsibility? this must be genetical.


One word: Sexism. There's a reason why women and young girls tend to be the victims of these barbaric crimes.
Reply 22
Original post by Radicalathiest
It has been illegal in the UK since 1985

4000 cases have been identified in the UK (collected from a freedom of information request at UK hospitals and not all replied)

In London, a women’s organisation, Imkaan, has carried out research suggesting that 7,000 women affected by FGM give birth in the city each year,

This is the first attempt at a prosecution


If the French can manage prosecutions in their country, we have no excuse. I find it appalling that young French girls are being sent over here to be mutilated because the British government are perceived to be turning a blind eye. Those figures are both shocking and very worrying. More needs to be done to empower young girls in this country to educate them that although their culture suggests that this is common and necessary, that they have a choice and that if they speak out,they will be protected. I am aware that persuading sometimes very young girls to speak out against their parents will be a difficult thing to do.
Original post by lillith
If the French can manage prosecutions in their country, we have no excuse. I find it appalling that young French girls are being sent over here to be mutilated because the British government are perceived to be turning a blind eye. Those figures are both shocking and very worrying. More needs to be done to empower young girls in this country to educate them that although their culture suggests that this is common and necessary, that they have a choice and that if they speak out,they will be protected. I am aware that persuading sometimes very young girls to speak out against their parents will be a difficult thing to do.


Indeed, I wonder what our excuse is? Probably hyper-sensitivity to the idea of causing offence.
Original post by lillith
If the French can manage prosecutions in their country, we have no excuse. I find it appalling that young French girls are being sent over here to be mutilated because the British government are perceived to be turning a blind eye. Those figures are both shocking and very worrying. More needs to be done to empower young girls in this country to educate them that although their culture suggests that this is common and necessary, that they have a choice and that if they speak out,they will be protected. I am aware that persuading sometimes very young girls to speak out against their parents will be a difficult thing to do.



Completely agree with you.

The problem we had in the UK was that checking the girls for signs of FGM could have been considered an assault so was not used as an option.

Thre was also the issue that peopel felt we should diiscrininate against certain groups but the to make the checks compuslary would have upset far more people so again was not used as an option

But the point I would make is we do not need the children to speck out as evidence of FGM should have been enough to start the process and this should have come from Doctors and medical professionals. But unfortunately this hasn't been the case.
Reply 25
Original post by Viva Emptiness
Indeed, I wonder what our excuse is? Probably hyper-sensitivity to the idea of causing offence.


Probably, I would love to hear them justify it.
Reply 26
I didn't realize this happened in UK, thought there were strict laws to this regard.

If it has been happening then it is about bloody time common sense prevailed and all this multiculturalism bull**** be told where to go.
Original post by Alfissti
I didn't realize this happened in UK, thought there were strict laws to this regard.

If it has been happening then it is about bloody time common sense prevailed and all this multiculturalism bull**** be told where to go.


I didn't realise it was so wide-spread until I watched a few documentaries on it on 4OD (not for the feint-hearted). It is abominable, it needs to be stopped - causing offence be damned!
Original post by Viva Emptiness
Indeed, I wonder what our excuse is? Probably hyper-sensitivity to the idea of causing offence.


The French have had 29 trials in 34 years.

I actually doubt it has anything to do with "sensitivity"

France has had a significant Muslim population for a far greater time. Also, add into the fact that it has only become a socially significant issue in the last 10 years in this country….I am not surprised that the numbers are so low here.

Just to add in….I am not sure this case would have been prosecuted in France. The adult decided that she wanted to be mutilated again. The French law is specifically against Children.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Ronove
I think deciding whether to have the same sentence or different sentences for MGM and FGM really depends on whether we're looking at it as physical damage or purely from a breach of rights perspective. Also I'm not sure what having different sentences would serve, but that's probably because I view it from the breach of rights angle. In my opinion it's the decision to alter a child's body without their consent that should be punished, which is the same decision taken whether it's MGM or FGM.


From what I understand, this did not involve the child.

This involved the mother who wanted to be resown.
I am not sure I would have a moral problem with this case.

A) The Adult wished to be resown. Not the Child. The only question is whether she was being coerced by her husband.

B) If she didn't have it done in a medical environment then she would have had it in a back alley somewhere.
Reply 31
Original post by DorianGrayism
From what I understand, this did not involve the child.

This involved the mother who wanted to be resown.

In that case the thread title is rather misleading with its use of the word 'parent'. Still, I was not discussing this particular case.
Original post by DorianGrayism
The French have had 29 trials in 34 years.

I actually doubt it has anything to do with "sensitivity"

France has had a significant Muslim population for a far greater time. Also, add into the fact that it has only become a socially significant issue in the last 10 years in this country….I am not surprised that the numbers are so low here.

Just to add in….I am not sure this case would have been prosecuted in France. The adult decided that she wanted to be mutilated again. The French law is specifically against Children.


It seems to be somewhat of an issue:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/05/female-genital-mutilation-editorial

"Then there are authorities with the power to intervene who are reluctant to confront what has in the past been seen as a cultural issue, too sensitive to address. Campaigners often point to France, where there have been 30 successful prosecutions resulting in a hundred convictions. There is no law specifically outlawing FGM, but there is less anxiety about challenging FGM as an abuse"

http://www.newstatesman.com/voices/2013/12/london-clinic-fighting-back-against-female-genital-mutilation

"Misplaced cultural sensitivities, a failure to see FGM as a child protection issue and a lack of accountability have so far impeded successful prosecutions taking place"

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/home-affairs/FGM%20written%20evidence.pdf

"The lack of understanding and awareness of FGM amongst frontline practitioners particularly within health, social services and education may be compounded by a reluctance to intervene due to cultural sensitivity and agencies concerned about being seen as racist."

Etc.
Original post by Viva Emptiness
It seems t……………..due to cultural sensitivity and agencies concerned about being seen as racist."

Etc.



I said the small difference between the French and British rate of prosecution has little to do with "hypersensitivity".

What you have written has nothing factual that disputes what I have written.
Reply 34
This issue is blown out of proportions by the tory press and the guardian who always love the chance to jump on a bandwagon.
Original post by James222
This issue is blown out of proportions by the tory press and the guardian who always love the chance to jump on a bandwagon.


You think FGM should have less exposure?
Reply 36
Original post by Viva Emptiness
You think FGM should have less exposure?


Yes
Other other issues like human sex traffickers are more important and common .
Original post by James222
Yes
Other other issues like human sex traffickers are more important and common .


Potential victims of trafficking encountered in 2012: 2255

http://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/publications/15-ukhtc-strategic-assesssment-on-human-trafficking-in-2012/file

Estimated number of girls at risk of FGM every year: 23,000 (with roughly 66,000 women in Britain already living with the consequences).

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/inform/resourcesforprofessionals/minorityethnic/female-genital-mutilation_wda96841.html


I think it's certainly worth giving FGM the increased exposure, especially given that we have a 0% conviction rate (and until now a 0% prosection rate!) of this horrendous crime. I don't see how increased awareness of this will hurt anyone.
Reply 38
Original post by Viva Emptiness
Potential victims of trafficking encountered in 2012: 2255

http://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/publications/15-ukhtc-strategic-assesssment-on-human-trafficking-in-2012/file

Estimated number of girls at risk of FGM every year: 23,000 (with roughly 66,000 women in Britain already living with the consequences).

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/inform/resourcesforprofessionals/minorityethnic/female-genital-mutilation_wda96841.html


I think it's certainly worth giving FGM the increased exposure, especially given that we have a 0% conviction rate (and until now a 0% prosection rate!) of this horrendous crime. I don't see how increased awareness of this will hurt anyone.


Potentially women is at risk of trafficking

A much smaller percentage are at risk of FGM.
The conviction rate is 0 because its so rare
Original post by James222
Potentially women is at risk of trafficking

A much smaller percentage are at risk of FGM.
The conviction rate is 0 because its so rare


The parts of that post that weren't idiocy didn't make any sense, so laters.

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