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AFP selection

Is it true that candidates are selected for interview on the basis of EPM + white space questions/ CV?

And if offered an interview, jobs are awarded based on EPM + white space questions + interview score?

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Reply 1
Avatar for 345rty
345rty
12
I would imagine it would vary by deanery but I can't see how else interview selection would be done. They have nothing but your EPM and white space answers (though there are more boxes for publications etc, so you can count more presentations and publications than with the normal FPAS 'EPM section').

After that they may scratch out the selection score and give everyone a blank slate, or alternatively weight the sections in very varying ways.
Original post by Asclepius1
Is it true that candidates are selected for interview on the basis of EPM + white space questions/ CV?

And if offered an interview, jobs are awarded based on EPM + white space questions + interview score?


Depends on the academic unit of application (aUoA). Most are really secretive about their shortlisting criteria. Thames long-list on the basis of your EPM (usually only top two deciles make it to the next stage). Applicants are then shortlisted by scoring them out of a maximum of 15 points (1 point for every poster/oral presentation, 1 for every distinction/merit/prize, 2 for every publication). The top two-hundred-and-something are invited to interview (on a 2 to 1 basis). (Source: the AFP prospectus on STFS website).

It would be reasonable therefore to assume that foundation schools look at publications, posters, oral presentation, intercalated degree classifications and medical school rankings to short-list candidates for interview. I don't really know how white space questions fit into it all.
Reply 3
Avatar for Asclepius1
Asclepius1
OP
4
Original post by 345rty
though there are more boxes for publications etc, so you can count more presentations and publications than with the normal FPAS 'EPM section').


Original post by Hydromancer
Applicants are then shortlisted by scoring them out of a maximum of 15 points (1 point for every poster/oral presentation, 1 for every distinction/merit/prize, 2 for every publication).


Do you know if at this stage publications must still have a pubmedID to be considered?
Original post by Asclepius1
Do you know if at this stage publications must still have a pubmedID to be considered?


Yes. They must be original research publications as well
Reply 5
Avatar for 345rty
345rty
12
Original post by Asclepius1
Do you know if at this stage publications must still have a pubmedID to be considered?


It probably varies by deanery but my understanding is no they don't, though a peer reviewed meta-analysis with a pubmed ID may score you more than a case report in the lithuanian journal of proctoscope smuggling...
How likely is it to get shortlisted for an interview at one of the London (Thames) academic programmes with a score of 12/20 and an EPM 2nd/3rd decile ranking? To my knowledge you can only apply for two programmes and I don't know if I'm wasting a choice by going for London.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by i'm no superman
How likely is it to get shortlisted for an interview at one of the London (Thames) academic programmes with a score of 12/20 and an EPM 2nd/3rd decile ranking? To my knowledge you can only apply for two programmes and I don't know if I'm wasting a choice by going for London.


If you look at STFS website for London AFP, the overall minimum EPM score for short-listing was 43 last year (i.e. they would only look at the extra academics score if your EPM was above 43). So that is either first decile or a lower one with some publications.
Original post by alicexelizabeth
If you look at STFS website for London AFP, the overall minimum EPM score for short-listing was 43 last year (i.e. they would only look at the extra academics score if your EPM was above 43). So that is either first decile or a lower one with some publications.
Thanks for that. So does that include extra degrees and papers/publications then since the EPM is out of 50? I think my decile will come to about 3rd overall (41 points out of 43) so with a first in my intercalated BSc (4 points) and a pubmed ID peer-reviewed paper (1 point) - it should add up to 46/50. If it's solely based on getting 1st decile across all years of medical school, I don't stand a chance.

I have a few friends who reckon I'm biting more than I can chew by going for a neurology focused academic programme in London. :dunce:
Original post by i'm no superman
Thanks for that. So does that include extra degrees and papers/publications then since the EPM is out of 50? I think my decile will come to about 3rd overall (41 points out of 43) so with a first in my intercalated BSc (4 points) and a pubmed ID peer-reviewed paper (1 point) - it should add up to 46/50. If it's solely based on getting 1st decile across all years of medical school, I don't stand a chance.

I have a few friends who reckon I'm biting more than I can chew by going for a neurology focused academic programme in London. :dunce:


I'm pretty sure they mean the FPAS EPM score, I.e 43/50 to be long listed, whether you are short listed depends on the rest of your academic achievements and the answers to the 4 white space questions ect.

I would go for it, you have nothing to lose. Will you be putting another Academic UoA, or you just going for London?

If staying in London is more important than doing an AFP, then you could always just gain a more competitive FP post in London which includes an Neurology job and then just get involved with the research your team will be doing?


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I gathered the 43/50 was the FPAS score (so that will include your decile, additional degrees and publications, and not just the decile). I could be wrong; I hope I'm not or else I stand ABSOLUTELY NO chance and would quite like to try for one of the Med Ed ones. :teeth:

Also, probably a stupid question, but does anyone know if letters to the editor with a pubmed ID (based on original research, but isn't a research paper) count for AFP applications (and the normal FP applications for that matter)?
Original post by Medicine Man
I gathered the 43/50 was the FPAS score (so that will include your decile, additional degrees and publications, and not just the decile). I could be wrong; I hope I'm not or else I stand ABSOLUTELY NO chance and would quite like to try for one of the Med Ed ones. :teeth:

Also, probably a stupid question, but does anyone know if letters to the editor with a pubmed ID (based on original research, but isn't a research paper) count for AFP applications (and the normal FP applications for that matter)?


For Thames AFP they specify "Original research paper published in a peer-reviewed
journal".

For the main FPAS it just specifies that it must have a PMID, so I would assume that letters with a PMID would gain points.
Reply 12
Avatar for Asclepius1
Asclepius1
OP
4
Original post by i'm no superman
How likely is it to get shortlisted for an interview at one of the London (Thames) academic programmes with a score of 12/20 and an EPM 2nd/3rd decile ranking? To my knowledge you can only apply for two programmes and I don't know if I'm wasting a choice by going for London.



What is this? I have never heard of anything scored out of 20?
Original post by Asclepius1
What is this? I have never heard of anything scored out of 20?


It's all for Thames AFP, here check out the handbook - http://www.stfs.org.uk/sites/stfs/files/TFS%20Academic%20Prospectus%20-%20V1%20(with%20programme%20data).pdf


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Am I correct in assuming for Thames, this score out of 20 that people are mentioning is such that you get:

•

Up to 5 points for an extra degree (same scoring rubric as FPAS)

•

Up to 10 points for original research paper publications and national/international presentations (2 for the former and 1 for the latter)

•

Up to 5 points for merits/distinctions/1st prizes (national/medical level)



...roughly speaking? I know there are other intricacies I have not mentioned.

How do these white space questions fit in then?
Original post by Medicine Man
Am I correct in assuming for Thames, this score out of 20 that people are mentioning is such that you get:

•

Up to 5 points for an extra degree (same scoring rubric as FPAS)

•

Up to 10 points for original research paper publications and national/international presentations (2 for the former and 1 for the latter)

•

Up to 5 points for merits/distinctions/1st prizes (national/medical level)

•




...roughly speaking? I know there are other intricacies I have not mentioned.

How do these white space questions fit in then?


That last one is a bummer for me, as our merits and distinctions are only given at the end of year 5. (Assuming i get one)
Original post by carcinoma
That last one is a bummer for me, as our merits and distinctions are only given at the end of year 5. (Assuming i get one)


I need to check whether our overall "Excellent"s for modules would count for this. Don't think I'm applying to London but seems to come up on a few person specifications. Would be a bit annoying if we scored less for this.
Original post by alicexelizabeth
I need to check whether our overall "Excellent"s for modules would count for this. Don't think I'm applying to London but seems to come up on a few person specifications. Would be a bit annoying if we scored less for this.


That would be pretty sweet, but I highly doubt it. I suppose there is no reason for it not to count as a Merit or Distinction in Medical Knowledge. I'd be interested in knowing whether it would count, let me know if you find out.

We get our deciles soon, I'm hoping for 1st or 2nd.


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Original post by alicexelizabeth
I need to check whether our overall "Excellent"s for modules would count for this. Don't think I'm applying to London but seems to come up on a few person specifications. Would be a bit annoying if we scored less for this.


I don't know if this is the same at your medical school (I don't suppose it will be), but at BL we were told merits in specific modules/specialities didn't count for these things, but rather it was the end of year merits/distinctions. Could be totally different elsewhere.

That's why BL decided to start offering distinctions at the end of the year (initially, you could only get a distinction if you got two merits in preclin or clinical).
Original post by Medicine Man
I don't know if this is the same at your medical school (I don't suppose it will be), but at BL we were told merits in specific modules/specialities didn't count for these things, but rather it was the end of year merits/distinctions. Could be totally different elsewhere.

That's why BL decided to start offering distinctions at the end of the year (initially, you could only get a distinction if you got two merits in preclin or clinical).


I don't think they will apply, but here's hoping.

They might do as the are only given at the end of the year on the transcript, but are applied to individual modules. We have three modules; Medical Knowledge, Clinical and Professional Development and Student Selected Component.

And if you finish in the top 10% of MK or SSC, you are given an excellent on the transcript.


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