Feminism - The Official Debate!
Okay, TSR seems to have an obsession with feminism so here are some thoughts...
First of all, if you are nazi feminist then you are taking life way too seriously and just need to calm down a bit
I don't have anything against feminism, but the days are gone where women (in the UK) need to be so over the top about it! I am all for gender equality, but why is there a need for feminism?
If you want equality then have it:
- If a women hits someone or says a nasty comment then expect to get it back (I do NOT condone violence)
- Another thread says 96% (or something) of prisoners are men and there is a lack of equality in the court decisions in convicted people - so expect more women in prison
- Jobs ARE virtually equal (yes this may be because of feminism but calm yourself) - one of the most male dominated professions, law, has now more female solicitors than men
- Women can touch/see our chests, so if you want equality whip off that bra and expect the same back
- I am sure men will be more than happy to let women compete against them at sport rather than having separate events for separate genders
- Let's have more men staying at home chilling whilst the women be the main bread winners
- Feminists want equal pay (that is fine) but often still expect the men to pay for everything
There is so much I could say (and I am sure more TSRians will add more points)...
As I say, I'm only sparking a debate and probably sound anti feminism but I really am not. I just want there to be REAL feminism - feminism has done great things but some women just take it too far! Despite this I expect some nazi feminist to let some steam off on this thread... but, to be honest, you will just be wasting your time
First of all, if you are nazi feminist then you are taking life way too seriously and just need to calm down a bit
I don't have anything against feminism, but the days are gone where women (in the UK) need to be so over the top about it! I am all for gender equality, but why is there a need for feminism?
If you want equality then have it:
- If a women hits someone or says a nasty comment then expect to get it back (I do NOT condone violence)
- Another thread says 96% (or something) of prisoners are men and there is a lack of equality in the court decisions in convicted people - so expect more women in prison
- Jobs ARE virtually equal (yes this may be because of feminism but calm yourself) - one of the most male dominated professions, law, has now more female solicitors than men
- Women can touch/see our chests, so if you want equality whip off that bra and expect the same back
- I am sure men will be more than happy to let women compete against them at sport rather than having separate events for separate genders
- Let's have more men staying at home chilling whilst the women be the main bread winners
- Feminists want equal pay (that is fine) but often still expect the men to pay for everything
There is so much I could say (and I am sure more TSRians will add more points)...
As I say, I'm only sparking a debate and probably sound anti feminism but I really am not. I just want there to be REAL feminism - feminism has done great things but some women just take it too far! Despite this I expect some nazi feminist to let some steam off on this thread... but, to be honest, you will just be wasting your time
Scroll to see replies
Do we need a new thread on this
Original post by gman10
Okay, TSR seems to have an obsession with feminism so here are some thoughts...
First of all, if you are nazi feminist then you are taking life way too seriously and just need to calm down a bit
I don't have anything against feminism, but the days are gone where women (in the UK) need to be so over the top about it! I am all for gender equality, but why is there a need for feminism?
If you want equality then have it:
- If a women hits someone or says a nasty comment then expect to get it back (I do NOT condone violence)
- Another thread says 96% (or something) of prisoners are men and there is a lack of equality in the court decisions in convicted people - so expect more women in prison
- Jobs ARE virtually equal (yes this may be because of feminism but calm yourself) - one of the most male dominated professions, law, has now more female solicitors than men
- Women can touch/see our chests, so if you want equality whip off that bra and expect the same back
- I am sure men will be more than happy to let women compete against them at sport rather than having separate events for separate genders
- Let's have more men staying at home chilling whilst the women be the main bread winners
- Feminists want equal pay (that is fine) but often still expect the men to pay for everything
There is so much I could say (and I am sure more TSRians will add more points)...
As I say, I'm only sparking a debate and probably sound anti feminism but I really am not. I just want there to be REAL feminism - feminism has done great things but some women just take it too far! Despite this I expect some nazi feminist to let some steam off on this thread... but, to be honest, you will just be wasting your time
First of all, if you are nazi feminist then you are taking life way too seriously and just need to calm down a bit
I don't have anything against feminism, but the days are gone where women (in the UK) need to be so over the top about it! I am all for gender equality, but why is there a need for feminism?
If you want equality then have it:
- If a women hits someone or says a nasty comment then expect to get it back (I do NOT condone violence)
- Another thread says 96% (or something) of prisoners are men and there is a lack of equality in the court decisions in convicted people - so expect more women in prison
- Jobs ARE virtually equal (yes this may be because of feminism but calm yourself) - one of the most male dominated professions, law, has now more female solicitors than men
- Women can touch/see our chests, so if you want equality whip off that bra and expect the same back
- I am sure men will be more than happy to let women compete against them at sport rather than having separate events for separate genders
- Let's have more men staying at home chilling whilst the women be the main bread winners
- Feminists want equal pay (that is fine) but often still expect the men to pay for everything
There is so much I could say (and I am sure more TSRians will add more points)...
As I say, I'm only sparking a debate and probably sound anti feminism but I really am not. I just want there to be REAL feminism - feminism has done great things but some women just take it too far! Despite this I expect some nazi feminist to let some steam off on this thread... but, to be honest, you will just be wasting your time
I do see where you're coming from, and it's why I think feminism is good for both genders. For example, men aren't able to spend any where near enough time with their children because they get very little leave, which is awful. I think if there was more gender equality men would benefit lots too which is why I care about it.
I hate seeing my boyfriend, my little brother, my (male) friends and other people I care about being affected by these issues. For example, my boyfriend seems to feel extremely pressured to pay for everything and refuses to take my money when I say I'll pay for something - even when it's something small, like getting money for the bus.
Apologies if there are any inaccuracies, but I just wanted to let you know that there are feminists out there who are interested in it because it benefits everyone!
OK a few suggestions on this type of thread.
Keep the tone as civilized as possible, irritating or annoying people is not a good idea if it can be avoided, or is unnecessary.
Avoid one liners, this is to all concerned. By one liner I do not mean something benign or something off topic, but something that is fishing for likes/approval or is just satire. I don't have a problem with satire, but a serious discussion isn't the place for it.
Avoid antagonistic or loaded terms such as 'check your privilege' or 'feminazi'. Clearly if you want to express an opinion about privilege or radical feminism it can be done in a way that doesn't use language that is virtually guaranteed to annoy someone. I'm not advocating tip toeing around everyone's sensitivities, merely avoiding the thread trashing terms that everyone is acutely aware of.
Avoid common argumentation fallacies. Don't strawman people - i.e misinterpret their position so it becomes easier to refute. Avoid all ad homenin attacks, i.e attacking someones character rather than their point.
And finally, use metaphor/allegory appropriately and usefully. It can be a very useful technique to illustrate a point, but don't use it when it can be expressed better without.
Keep the tone as civilized as possible, irritating or annoying people is not a good idea if it can be avoided, or is unnecessary.
Avoid one liners, this is to all concerned. By one liner I do not mean something benign or something off topic, but something that is fishing for likes/approval or is just satire. I don't have a problem with satire, but a serious discussion isn't the place for it.
Avoid antagonistic or loaded terms such as 'check your privilege' or 'feminazi'. Clearly if you want to express an opinion about privilege or radical feminism it can be done in a way that doesn't use language that is virtually guaranteed to annoy someone. I'm not advocating tip toeing around everyone's sensitivities, merely avoiding the thread trashing terms that everyone is acutely aware of.
Avoid common argumentation fallacies. Don't strawman people - i.e misinterpret their position so it becomes easier to refute. Avoid all ad homenin attacks, i.e attacking someones character rather than their point.
And finally, use metaphor/allegory appropriately and usefully. It can be a very useful technique to illustrate a point, but don't use it when it can be expressed better without.
western 'feminism' is all about entitled women wanting their cake and eating it to.
I support equality. I don't support western feminism.
Some of the laws about abortion and rape and sexual harassment I find absolutely sickening because women can just manipulate them to get what ever they want since men have no rights in this department. They can make false sexual harassment claims and get men fired and will always win because their word is favoured. They can kill a man's child through the abortion laws without him getting any say in it. Women can't even be convicted of rape, they have their own seperate law thats more lenient. They can go ahead and spike some dudes drink and rape him while he's unconscious then even accuse HIM of rape and get away with it.
I avoid feminazis like the plague because you gotta be pretty sick in the head to defend stuff like that. And it really just isn't safe to associate with them as a male because they can just **** you over by manipulating the law. You can lose your job just because a woman doesn't like you.
I support equality. I don't support western feminism.
Some of the laws about abortion and rape and sexual harassment I find absolutely sickening because women can just manipulate them to get what ever they want since men have no rights in this department. They can make false sexual harassment claims and get men fired and will always win because their word is favoured. They can kill a man's child through the abortion laws without him getting any say in it. Women can't even be convicted of rape, they have their own seperate law thats more lenient. They can go ahead and spike some dudes drink and rape him while he's unconscious then even accuse HIM of rape and get away with it.
I avoid feminazis like the plague because you gotta be pretty sick in the head to defend stuff like that. And it really just isn't safe to associate with them as a male because they can just **** you over by manipulating the law. You can lose your job just because a woman doesn't like you.
ugh some people clearly dont get the definition of feminism
everyone should be a feminist to be a decent human being that's the end of the talk
everyone should be a feminist to be a decent human being that's the end of the talk
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
Do we need a new thread on this
Ah, but you see this one is official.
On topic: A lot of the issue this forum seems to face is that the people decrying feminism aren't actually describing feminism - they're constructing their own sets of ideas, calling it feminism, then attacking it. Which alright, I'd hate feminism too if it was what the OP describes.
The obvious response would be "Go read about intersectional feminism," but it's hard to get people to seriously read about a topic they've already made up their minds on.
Original post by instrumentality
ugh some people clearly dont get the definition of feminism
everyone should be a feminist to be a decent human being that's the end of the talk
everyone should be a feminist to be a decent human being that's the end of the talk
No, Just No.
And just because you've stated your flawed and ignorant opinion does not mean that's the end of the discussion.
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
Do we need a new thread on this
it's annoying really. someone makes a thread on rape culture, and rather than carrying on the argument/debate on that thread, they had to make 4 other ones.
someone disagrees with feminist ideology on one thread, and we end up with like 6 on the same topic
Original post by Spetznaaz
No, Just No.
And just because you've stated your flawed and ignorant opinion does not mean that's the end of the discussion.
And just because you've stated your flawed and ignorant opinion does not mean that's the end of the discussion.
Do you want to carry on the discussion then and explain your point in more depth than "No, just no."?
We should probably start by establishing terms of reference - there's no point discussing feminism if everyone is using it to mean different things. Would you care to start by giving your concept of feminism? I can't speak for instrumentality and their idea of it, but it's somewhere to start from on the task of working out whether it's a necessary quality to be a decent person.
are we even allowed to talk about feminism on TSR, though?
the last time I said anything against feminism I got multiple blue cards
the last time I said anything against feminism I got multiple blue cards
Original post by instrumentality
ugh some people clearly dont get the definition of feminism
everyone should be a feminist to be a decent human being that's the end of the talk
everyone should be a feminist to be a decent human being that's the end of the talk
I think more people should be MRAs in this generation and this part of the world based on our misandric laws, but that's just my opinion
Original post by Spetznaaz
No, Just No.
And just because you've stated your flawed and ignorant opinion does not mean that's the end of the discussion.
And just because you've stated your flawed and ignorant opinion does not mean that's the end of the discussion.
Oh man, you have made me angry.
Ignorant?
So you are saying that you don't acknowledge basic human rights without discussion? DO YOU EVEN understand what it feels like when people that are in favour are *~*~debating*~**~ on how you should be treated.
Why feminism should be a natural thing in society? So that women wouldn't have their dignity stepped on everyday, abused and oh dear, the list could go on.
Feminism is not only for women - it acknowledges that men shouldn't be brought up with the pressure of being the only breadwinners of the family or they HAVE to act masculine in every freaking way.
Original post by OrlaCarmel
I do see where you're coming from, and it's why I think feminism is good for both genders. For example, men aren't able to spend any where near enough time with their children because they get very little leave, which is awful. I think if there was more gender equality men would benefit lots too which is why I care about it.
I hate seeing my boyfriend, my little brother, my (male) friends and other people I care about being affected by these issues. For example, my boyfriend seems to feel extremely pressured to pay for everything and refuses to take my money when I say I'll pay for something - even when it's something small, like getting money for the bus.
Apologies if there are any inaccuracies, but I just wanted to let you know that there are feminists out there who are interested in it because it benefits everyone!
I hate seeing my boyfriend, my little brother, my (male) friends and other people I care about being affected by these issues. For example, my boyfriend seems to feel extremely pressured to pay for everything and refuses to take my money when I say I'll pay for something - even when it's something small, like getting money for the bus.
Apologies if there are any inaccuracies, but I just wanted to let you know that there are feminists out there who are interested in it because it benefits everyone!
Good post. The crux of why online discussion seems so awful on feminism is that both sides often just ignore issues relating to the other gender. Like the OP, just ignoring all women's issues when introducing the topic, exactly what some feminists do to men.
Patriachy is supposed to be the enemy of feminism, and patriachy definitely hurts men a lot- basically it hurts anyone who doesn't fit traditional gender roles.
Original post by Mankytoes
Good post. The crux of why online discussion seems so awful on feminism is that both sides often just ignore issues relating to the other gender. Like the OP, just ignoring all women's issues when introducing the topic, exactly what some feminists do to men.
Patriachy is supposed to be the enemy of feminism, and patriachy definitely hurts men a lot- basically it hurts anyone who doesn't fit traditional gender roles.
Patriachy is supposed to be the enemy of feminism, and patriachy definitely hurts men a lot- basically it hurts anyone who doesn't fit traditional gender roles.
But are we really living in a paitriarchy? I see very little evidence of that, men generally prefer leadership roles to women, that's a free choice. I have no problem with women being in leadership, but I do have an issue with people being pressured into it (men and women).
Original post by ManifoldManifest
Do you want to carry on the discussion then and explain your point in more depth than "No, just no."?
We should probably start by establishing terms of reference - there's no point discussing feminism if everyone is using it to mean different things. Would you care to start by giving your concept of feminism? I can't speak for instrumentality and their idea of it, but it's somewhere to start from on the task of working out whether it's a necessary quality to be a decent person.
We should probably start by establishing terms of reference - there's no point discussing feminism if everyone is using it to mean different things. Would you care to start by giving your concept of feminism? I can't speak for instrumentality and their idea of it, but it's somewhere to start from on the task of working out whether it's a necessary quality to be a decent person.
Original post by instrumentality
Oh man, you have made me angry.
Ignorant?
So you are saying that you don't acknowledge basic human rights without discussion? DO YOU EVEN understand what it feels like when people that are in favour are *~*~debating*~**~ on how you should be treated.
Why feminism should be a natural thing in society? So that women wouldn't have their dignity stepped on everyday, abused and oh dear, the list could go on.
Feminism is not only for women - it acknowledges that men shouldn't be brought up with the pressure of being the only breadwinners of the family or they HAVE to act masculine in every freaking way.
Ignorant?
So you are saying that you don't acknowledge basic human rights without discussion? DO YOU EVEN understand what it feels like when people that are in favour are *~*~debating*~**~ on how you should be treated.
Why feminism should be a natural thing in society? So that women wouldn't have their dignity stepped on everyday, abused and oh dear, the list could go on.
Feminism is not only for women - it acknowledges that men shouldn't be brought up with the pressure of being the only breadwinners of the family or they HAVE to act masculine in every freaking way.
I will respond to you two later on today. Even though i know, no matter what i say nothing will change your closed minds.
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