The Student Room Group

Men have shot themselves in the foot

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Original post by KingCrab
I've slept with 70 women (although 5 are pros). I currently have gf. Move on.



I can't imagine the girls that would open their legs for you.

How old are you?
Reply 21
Original post by TolerantBeing
When they're 30-35...

Not many on TSR are 35. Why bold TSR buddies?


You've lost me completely.
Original post by TolerantBeing
I can't imagine the girls that would open their legs for you.

How old are you?


I'm at 65 (also 5 pros ) so I'm going to guess he's around my age (26).

Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Ryan202
You've lost me completely.


Keep up. You said that according to the OP women have lowered their standards, he said they lower their standards at 30 but before that they expect Prince Charming.


You said that's where my TSR buddies come in handy, and I said well not really because there's not a lot of 35 year olds on TSR.


How is that hard for you?
Reply 24
Original post by TolerantBeing
Keep up. You said that according to the OP women have lowered their standards, he said they lower their standards at 30 but before that they expect Prince Charming.


You said that's where my TSR buddies come in handy, and I said well not really because there's not a lot of 35 year olds on TSR.


How is that hard for you?




Ugh. Forget the age bull****!
Reply 25
Original post by miser
I don't see how this view is backed up by the state of the world today. If this were true, few people would be in relationships, is that right? But the majority of people have relationships from their teens onwards.

Also, I don't think this hypergamy is as prevalent today as it has been in the past. Monogamy and traditional family values have not been a historical constant, and past norms may well have seen high status males reproducing with the majority of women (especially in small communities prior to civilisation).


The phrase ''where are all the good men?'' perfectly describes my OP . Men are the same, it's women's expectations that have gone up tenfold. I remember a scene from Ally MacBeal where she says something like ''there's only about 2 good men in each (US) state''. Of course, the problem is much worse with middle class women who are incredibly picky.


Yes, people are having relationships, but there a lot more young men who are single or virgins than there are women. It's rare to see a single woman who's status isn't her own decision. Just look at the relationship forum, there are so many guys who would love to have a girl, just about any girl. While at the same time girls complain that the only guy they fancy won't even look at them twice. Or if they should leave him because he's abusive. Or how to get him back after they leave him. Girls make threads about how they can't get ''that one guy'', guys make threads about they can't get any girl. Many men have simply been ''priced out'' of the relationship/sex market.


Obviously this becomes less relevant after 30 or so but by then a lot of men and women are emotionally ****ed up, albeit for totally opposite reasons. Look at the average age for first marriage and the divorce rate, it's through the roof. And women initiate it the vast majority of the time. ''Eat, pray, love'' is a perfect example of the hedonistic, deluded, modern, middle class western woman. No wonder that book was a huge hit.

As for hypergamy, it's always been there, it's natural. This is why I call it unchecked nowadays. By that I mean completely unrealistic expectations. Women's value has gone up and men's has gone down. Before, girls couldn't afford pipe dreams about rock stars and footballers, they had to find a man fast since they had to eat, basically. But if you're having dinner a Michelin restaurant, you're not just gonna have the bread, are you?
(edited 9 years ago)
The idea that only 5% of men reproduce literally just made me spit my drink over my keyboard with laughter.

Something tells me the OP would place himself in the 95% :P
People who discuss relationships as a marketplace always seem really creepy and faintly sociopathic. Empathy? Emotions? No, there is only cold logic and the invisible hand of the free market - let's choose our partners based on this careful cost/benefit analysis.

Maybe you can't start a relationship because you're a creepy robot economist instead of a person?
Reply 28
Original post by jamieTT
The phrase ''where are all the good men?'' perfectly describes my OP . Men are the same, it's women's expectations that have gone up tenfold. I remember a scene from Ally MacBeal where she says something like ''there's only about 2 good men in each (US) state''. Of course, the problem is much worse with middle class women who are incredibly picky.

Yes, people are having relationships, but there a lot more young men who are single or virgins than there are women. It's rare to see a single woman who's status isn't her own decision. Just look at the relationship forum, there are so many guys who would love to have a girl, just about any girl. While at the same time girls complain that the only guy they fancy won't even look at them twice. Or if they should leave him because he's abusive. Or how to get him back after they leave him. Many men have simply been ''priced out'' of the relationship/sex market.


Obviously this becomes less relevant after 30 or so but by then a lot of men and women are emotionally ****ed up, albeit for totally opposite reasons. Look at the average age for first marriage and the divorce rate, it's through the roof. And women initiate it the vast majority of the time. ''Eat, pray, love'' is a perfect example of the hedonistic, deluded, modern, middle class western woman. No wonder that book was a huge hit.

As for hypergamy, it's always been there, it's natural. This is why I call it unchecked nowadays. By that I mean completely unrealistic expectations. Women's value has gone up and men's has gone down. Before, girls couldn't afford pipe dreams about rock stars and footballers, they had to find a man fast since they had to eat, basically. But if you're having dinner a Michelin restaurant, you're not just gonna have the bread, are you?

Ah. Thanks for clarifying in detail. I agree with what you've written here, though I'd add that I don't see it as the fault of women - whom they're attracted to is a matter of psychology and social influence, rather than rational consideration. There is quite obviously a large disparity between the number of women a man judges to be attractive and the number of men the average woman judges to be attractive. I remember reading a post on the OkCupid blog which showed just how above average a guy had to be in order to be judged of average attractiveness by women. It is certainly very skewed.

As you've pointed out in previous posts, women effectively have more choice now, and so they exercise it. There is no urgency to settle early on, and consequences for divorce are less today than they've ever been. Couple that with growing wealth inequality and you have a decreasing pool of considered-eligible bachelors to boot.

Of course, it does the women no good either, since they are increasing competition among themselves. It's not exactly an optimal situation for either gender, but aside from limiting people's choices again, I'm not aware of anything that could be done to ameliorate it.
Reply 29
Original post by Jebedee
I'm at 65 (also 5 pros ) so I'm going to guess he's around my age (26).

Posted from TSR Mobile


People keep count?
Original post by ManifoldManifest
People who discuss relationships as a marketplace always seem really creepy and faintly sociopathic. Empathy? Emotions? No, there is only cold logic and the invisible hand of the free market - let's choose our partners based on this careful cost/benefit analysis.

Maybe you can't start a relationship because you're a creepy robot economist instead of a person?


Exactly. OP ever considered you are the problem?
Original post by jamieTT
The welfare state (through taxes paid mostly by men) and the technological progress (99% by men) have made the average guy very unappealing to women since he can't really offer anything they don't already have so now they can sit back and wait for Prince Charming to show up in the distant horizon on his galloping white horse. This is what I like to call unchecked hypergamy, a level similar to species in the animal kingdom (only 5% of males reproduce in some species) and perhaps never seen in human history. By the time they hit 30-35, women realize their eggs are drying up and Disney like characters don't exist in real life (or there are very few of them and they've already been grabbed by better quality women) so they settle for a ''low quality'' male they will end up resenting and divorcing in 10-15 years. Other growing trends are women who don't even ''settle'' so they end up as cat ladies, adopting or having some guy's white stuff inserted in her in a medical facility.


Although there is some retaliation from men (herbivore men in Japan, MGTOW in the West), the effect is too small and will make very little difference. Well, not in the short term anyway.


Men have shot themselves in the foot, really.


Where's your evidence for any of this? It seems to me that you're free associating and throwing everything you don't like together (welfare state, modern women who don't follow the exact path that you want them to follow etc) and acting like it's all some big conspiracy. I think you need to relax a little bit; it's almost fascist some of the stuff you're coming out with.
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
Exactly. OP ever considered you are the problem?



OP has a point. In Japan its actually already happening with women having too high of an expectation of men (showing though its nothing to do with welfare however). Over here, though Id say women tend to undershoot more than anything, not overshoot. In my experience, finding a girl who is single after 21 is as likely as finding a unicorn.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Ruthless Dutchman
People keep count?


As a rule, most do until they reach 100. After that it's kinda pointless.
Original post by KingCrab
I think you have a good point. Don't forget that with the growth of feminist women there will be a movement of men to select foreign women, whether through immigration, bringing women back to the UK or moving to pussy paradise.

Just look at the popularity of trips to Amsterdam, Thailand, and eastern Europe. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction; in this case men will avoid marriage and have sex with prostitutes or marry foreign women.

I don't even date British women any more.

Ignore the guys in here; they prefer to walk with their eyes closed

Definetly do not marry a Briitish woman.


I'm sure they're collectively devastated :lol:.
Reply 35
Original post by miser
Ah. Thanks for clarifying in detail. I agree with what you've written here, though I'd add that I don't see it as the fault of women - whom they're attracted to is a matter of psychology and social influence, rather than rational consideration. There is quite obviously a large disparity between the number of women a man judges to be attractive and the number of men the average woman judges to be attractive. I remember reading a post on the OkCupid blog which showed just how above average a guy had to be in order to be judged of average attractiveness by women. It is certainly very skewed.

As you've pointed out in previous posts, women effectively have more choice now, and so they exercise it. There is no urgency to settle early on, and consequences for divorce are less today than they've ever been. Couple that with growing wealth inequality and you have a decreasing pool of considered-eligible bachelors to boot.

Of course, it does the women no good either, since they are increasing competition among themselves. It's not exactly an optimal situation for either gender, but aside from limiting people's choices again, I'm not aware of anything that could be done to ameliorate it.


Exactly. It's nature, I'm not blaming women for it. Therefore the title of the thread. Do you jump into the lion's den and blame him for killing you? No. I just wish they'd be more truthful to themselves and admit that least some of these issues do indeed exist. Look at any similar thread, it's all pissed off girls and trolls then maybe 1-2 people who know what the **** they're talking about.


Something I didn't think about mentioning is the young male rate of depression and especially suicide, I think a great majority of it is highly influenced by this situation. Young men kill themselves 4 to 5 times more than women and the ratio is highest around 30 when they realize they are a ''failure'' in the eyes of society and especially women (not good looking enough, not confident, not successful, not charming). Since most women constantly get attention from men they can never relate to the problem. Instead of insulting the ''nice guys'' and telling them it's their fault and that they're doing it wrong, they should just come clean and say that in many cases the guy isn't doing anything wrong and he just doesn't have enough ''quality''. At least then they'd know the truth.

What can be done? I don't know. Nature is hard to fight against. But I do know that admitting there is a problem would be a good start.

Edit : On the topic of looks, that's also true. Women find very few men attractive, there was a thread on here and most girls said 3-5% while most guys said 50% of women were attractive to them. Other surveys and studies had similar results.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by jamieTT
Isn't that what the friendzone is for? Get smashed by confident, hot guy who treats you like **** then go dump all your emotional garbage on the ''nice guy''. But yes, most women do realize enough is enough after going round and round on the cock carousel with the ''alpha'' guys (20/80 rule definitely applies to teens and young adults, especially for casual sex) and the emotional roller coaster but by that time it's too little, too late. So they end up marrying a ''good enough'' guy they'll most likely divorce in the end.


What about the girls that have liked you and flirted with you and wanted to be with you? What was wrong with them? Are you too much of a "hot alpha" guy for them?

The point I am making is that perhaps you are too much caught up in thinking that "the most popular girl does not like me". So what? It does not matter. People like people as individuals.



Posted from TSR Mobile
I don't care who shoots themselves in the foot as long as it's not me or infringing upon my interests. Guess what? If other guys are shooting themselves in the foot, that means the situation is helping me. Long live others shooting themselves in the foot! Now go away and stop boring me with these repetitive and tedious topics.
Original post by KingCrab
I think you have a good point. Don't forget that with the growth of feminist women there will be a movement of men to select foreign women, whether through immigration, bringing women back to the UK or moving to pussy paradise.

Just look at the popularity of trips to Amsterdam, Thailand, and eastern Europe. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction; in this case men will avoid marriage and have sex with prostitutes or marry foreign women.

I don't even date British women any more.

Ignore the guys in here; they prefer to walk with their eyes closed

Definetly do not marry a Briitish woman.


British woman offended over here :wink: but I'm boring and sensible...
why do you think women owe men something?

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