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The significance of the extracts in LNAT
The LNAT test is obviously made to see how well you understand the material that you read. But are the LNAT extracts supposed to represent something that you would come across if you studied law?
Are they, for example, supposed to be representative of a Judge's speech or a article written in a law journal?
Is the reason that a Judge's speech/an article from a law journal/an extract from a statute is/are not used because universities presume that you have not come across this material before?
Or is it not that specific and just testing on what level you are understanding what you read?
Are they, for example, supposed to be representative of a Judge's speech or a article written in a law journal?
Is the reason that a Judge's speech/an article from a law journal/an extract from a statute is/are not used because universities presume that you have not come across this material before?
Or is it not that specific and just testing on what level you are understanding what you read?
I don't think that the articles will have anything much to do with law, but are testing your aptitude for the subject- ie. can you think critically, can you spot the argument, do you know what the writer is doing.
This is why many people say you can't prepare for the lnat- what they probably mean is that there is no use in reading law textbooks etc etc...
However, you can prepare by reading newspapers and thinking about the above questions in relation to them.
This is why many people say you can't prepare for the lnat- what they probably mean is that there is no use in reading law textbooks etc etc...
However, you can prepare by reading newspapers and thinking about the above questions in relation to them.
The whole point of the LNAT is to test your natural aptitude for that stuff, they want naturals not just ppl who can sit and geek it up and pick up 3 As then dont have enough time at uni and totally fail. Its too easy to get 3As so they need a way to distinguish ... tada.
But surely there must be some parralel between what the LNAT is testing and things that you come across in studying law.
For example, LNAT extracts typically test what is the main point that the writer is arguing, isn't this akin to identifying the ratio decidendi of a case?
Or how about, questions like: "which of the following is not an argument used by the writer...", isn't this a parralel to obiter dicta?
There's also the odd question like: "why does the author use this particular example?", this could be a parralel to the citation of previous case-law couldn't it and how the writer/judge uses it to either support or develop his argument.
There are other examples. I am not disputing whether the LNAT is a "good" test, I think that it is, I am just inquiring whether other people think that there are parralels to be drawn with the study of law and whether the reason that extracts from case-law/academic commentary do not form part of the LNAT test is because of the fact that universitites do not expect you to have come across this material before.
For example, LNAT extracts typically test what is the main point that the writer is arguing, isn't this akin to identifying the ratio decidendi of a case?
Or how about, questions like: "which of the following is not an argument used by the writer...", isn't this a parralel to obiter dicta?
There's also the odd question like: "why does the author use this particular example?", this could be a parralel to the citation of previous case-law couldn't it and how the writer/judge uses it to either support or develop his argument.
There are other examples. I am not disputing whether the LNAT is a "good" test, I think that it is, I am just inquiring whether other people think that there are parralels to be drawn with the study of law and whether the reason that extracts from case-law/academic commentary do not form part of the LNAT test is because of the fact that universitites do not expect you to have come across this material before.
LNAT extracts were hardly anything to do with law.. a couple of my essay choices were about the legal system and how its set out, but apart from that, none of my extracts were about it. I had things about art, the army, smoking etc.
The essay tests you ability to create a good arguement (obviously good for a law student) and the extracts are more about testing you ability to pick out corect evidence/information to backup your choice of answer (IMHO anyway)
The essay tests you ability to create a good arguement (obviously good for a law student) and the extracts are more about testing you ability to pick out corect evidence/information to backup your choice of answer (IMHO anyway)
Suzi_law
LNAT extracts were hardly anything to do with law.. a couple of my essay choices were about the legal system and how its set out, but apart from that, none of my extracts were about it. I had things about art, the army, smoking etc.
I'm not suggesting that LNAT extracts have to be on a topic within the law.
I'm asking whether there is a parallel between the skills that have to be used in the test with the skills involved in studying law. So rather than it being just any test, it is a test that has strong parallels with the study of law.
Of course the skills you use in the LNAT multiple choice section are the same skills you use when studying law at university - that's why we are testing for them! They are skills of analysis and synthesis, deduction and induction, etc.
John Gardner
Of course the skills you use in the LNAT multiple choice section are the same skills you use when studying law at university - that's why we are testing for them! They are skills of analysis and synthesis, deduction and induction, etc.
Well I wasn't really sure and its possible that the test could have been more general, like just a simple reading exercise.
For example, LNAT extracts typically test what is the main point that the writer is arguing, isn't this akin to identifying the ratio decidendi of a case?
Or how about, questions like: "which of the following is not an argument used by the writer...", isn't this a parralel to obiter dicta?
There's also the odd question like: "why does the author use this particular example?", this could be a parralel to the citation of previous case-law couldn't it and how the writer/judge uses it to either support or develop his argument
Or how about, questions like: "which of the following is not an argument used by the writer...", isn't this a parralel to obiter dicta?
There's also the odd question like: "why does the author use this particular example?", this could be a parralel to the citation of previous case-law couldn't it and how the writer/judge uses it to either support or develop his argument
Does that mean that these parralels that I drew are roughly correct?
Your parallels are too fancy. Identifying the ratio of a case is one analytical challenge that you might face in some legal systems. But we test your powers of analysis more generally. So, for example, the LNAT would help to identify aptitude for legal study even in countries in which the ratio/obiter distinction does not form part of the law.
Is "fancy" polite for "wrong"?
I don't think that my parallels are too fancy, finding the ratio of a case is one of the simplest lawyerly skills and coupled with its importance is an area that merits testing.
I would regard the following as quite fanciful but also possibly quite true:
If you give a number of people the same case and asked them what the ratio of the case is they would all come up with different answers...its for that reason that the LNAT is a multiple choice based test...it limits the number of possible answers.
I don't think that my parallels are too fancy, finding the ratio of a case is one of the simplest lawyerly skills and coupled with its importance is an area that merits testing.
I would regard the following as quite fanciful but also possibly quite true:
If you give a number of people the same case and asked them what the ratio of the case is they would all come up with different answers...its for that reason that the LNAT is a multiple choice based test...it limits the number of possible answers.
superdillon
Is "fancy" polite for "wrong"?
I don't think that my parallels are too fancy, finding the ratio of a case is one of the simplest lawyerly skills and coupled with its importance is an area that merits testing.
I would regard the following as quite fanciful but also possibly quite true:
If you give a number of people the same case and asked them what the ratio of the case is they would all come up with different answers...its for that reason that the LNAT is a multiple choice based test...it limits the number of possible answers.
I don't think that my parallels are too fancy, finding the ratio of a case is one of the simplest lawyerly skills and coupled with its importance is an area that merits testing.
I would regard the following as quite fanciful but also possibly quite true:
If you give a number of people the same case and asked them what the ratio of the case is they would all come up with different answers...its for that reason that the LNAT is a multiple choice based test...it limits the number of possible answers.
You contradict yourself. If everyone would give a different answer it can't be a simple skill.
superdillon
Is "fancy" polite for "wrong"?
I don't think that my parallels are too fancy, finding the ratio of a case is one of the simplest lawyerly skills and coupled with its importance is an area that merits testing.
I don't think that my parallels are too fancy, finding the ratio of a case is one of the simplest lawyerly skills and coupled with its importance is an area that merits testing.
But we don't test it. Your parallels are fancy in the sense that they attribute to the LNAT authors very elaborate ambitions that go beyond their actual ambitions. They are interested in skills that could be useful for legal education anywhere. As I said, the ratio/obiter distinction is not one of these. It is a distinction relevant only to common law systems.
superdillon
If you give a number of people the same case and asked them what the ratio of the case is they would all come up with different answers...its for that reason that the LNAT is a multiple choice based test...it limits the number of possible answers.
This line of thought is hard to follow. All the questions in the LNAT have one single right answer. Some of the others are nearly right but nearly right is still wrong. If (as you claim) the ratio of a case is always arguable then the ability to grasp the ratio is one thing that we clearly could not test using a multiple choice exam. So why would we try?
By saying "finding the ratio of a case is one of the simplest lawyerly skills", I wasn't suggesting that everybody got it right. It can be a simple skill even though everybody gives a different answer.
I see now that the parallels that I drew were wrong. The LNAT is obviously a more general test than that.
I appreciate that, I just thought that the multiple choice based test would be the best test because it limits the number of possible answers and only one of them is right.
I see now that the parallels that I drew were wrong. The LNAT is obviously a more general test than that.
John Gardner
All the questions in the LNAT have one single right answer. Some of the others are nearly right but nearly right is still wrong. If (as you claim) the ratio of a case is always arguable then the ability to grasp the ratio is one thing that we clearly could not test using a multiple choice exam. So why would we try?
I appreciate that, I just thought that the multiple choice based test would be the best test because it limits the number of possible answers and only one of them is right.
superdillon
By saying "finding the ratio of a case is one of the simplest lawyerly skills", I wasn't suggesting that everybody got it right. It can be a simple skill even though everybody gives a different answer.
No, really, it can't. Think about it. If everyone gives a different answer, only one or two people are correctly deducing the ratio. It must, therefore, be difficult or everyone would be able to do it and get it right.
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