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Medicine vs Law

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I would prefer an arrogant lawyer to an arrogant doctor, so do law.
Reply 41
Original post by 322394
So up until recently I've been fairly set on doing medicine for a few reasons. Namely:
I got into serval medical schools with very little effort
A large number of people in my family are/were in the medical profession and recommended it to me
Many people seem to think that I would make a good doctor
It seemed like an easy option (relatively high pay, guaranteed employment, easy course in the sense that it isn't exactly what you would call intellectually challenging, just very time consuming)

However, a few things have changed in my life:
firstly, and most importantly, I'm having a baby in May (I'm set to start medicine at the very end of September)
I have also just moved to the uk from Australia, this changes two things
Firstly, I would have to pay international fees (law is significantly cheaper)
Secondly, I would have to work in the NHS. I really don't want to.
In addition to this I have also been presented with the opportunity to study law is a well reputed law school.

Now my main concern in order of importance are
Time spent away from my baby while studying
Time spent away from my family while training/working
Job security
Pay
The difficulty of the two courses
The cost of studying

Just to clarify, I'm not actually that fussed about 'helping people', in some ways I think lawyers do more to help people than doctors if we're going to be quite honest. I'm not bad with people but I'm no bleeding heart either, if someone comes to me with diabetes and they refuse to fix their diet as far as I'm concerned they're not worth caring about. Likewise, if someone does something ridiculously stupid in law, for example, forgetting to pay a small debt and then becoming bankrupt because they didn't show up to any of their court hearings, well then they're not worth my concern either. That said though I wouldn't be fussed about taking either as a client/patient for the right price. So it's really not a question of my freaking out last minute over working in the NHS, I was never that keen to be a doctor, it just sort of fell in my path and at the time it didn't seem like there was a better alternative. The thing that throws me out is the possibility that I may be too stupid to do a law degree and my uncertainty over job prospects.

If you have or are currently doing either degree I would very much appreciate your feed back on the degree itself. If you are studying either degree with a baby I would love to know how this has had an effect. If you just have an opinion on the matter because you're dad's a doctor or your mum's a lawyer then I'd like to hear about that too.

Thanks :smile:



I thought lawyers having a hard enough time getting jobs, though at least you don't have the extra debt of law school like in the US regardless of the extra costs of the LPC or Bar Professional Training Course. If you want more money go to a private equity firm or hedge fund and to be happy. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/04/be-happy-work-at-a-hedge-fund.html
Original post by infairverona
The degrees are not interchangeable. Law graduates with a 2.1 from a good university are ten a penny and the competition is fierce. The hours are long and the workload is intense when you start your TC. Randomly choosing to swap from medicine into law doesn't make you any more suitable for law.



This is just not true at all...I can't even fathom how anyone could say this.




Law is a lot of work, a lot of reading, a good uni will also mean more contact hours than if you'd done say history or english. Medicine sounds simpler because you have longer contact hours but not much work to do outside of uni, so I hear. My best friend does med, is in uni 9-5 most days but has no reading to do and just the odd essay to write. Law involves a hell of a lot of reading/independent study if you're doing it well. Plus you will have to also do another tough year to be a solicitor/barrister, and long hours on a training contract. With a child I would really think carefully about choosing either option.


I didn't say she was suited to law . I said she can go and do it. She would have a better time there than doing medicibe if she dislikes patients
Reply 43
Original post by Miel Purple
I didn't say she was suited to law . I said she can go and do it. She would have a better time there than doing medicibe if she dislikes patients


If she dislikes patients, she'll probably dislike her clients. :rolleyes:
Original post by Iridescenzo
If she dislikes patients, she'll probably dislike her clients. :rolleyes:


I don't think so. They're different. Have you even worked with patients before....
Reply 45
Original post by Miel Purple
I don't think so. They're different. Have you even worked with patients before....


I was just being coy. Based on her dismissive attitude in the OP, it sounds as though she's indifferent to working with (or for) people, full-stop.
Original post by Iridescenzo
I was just being coy. Based on her dismissive attitude in the OP, it sounds as though she's indifferent to working with (or for) people, full-stop.


The OP is in danger of disappearing up her own backside.
Original post by Miel Purple
I didn't say she was suited to law . I said she can go and do it. She would have a better time there than doing medicibe if she dislikes patients


From the way she described a potential law client it really doesn't sound like she is any more suited to law clients tbh!
Reply 48
You have the cynicism of a doctor without the experience. I don't know whether that is good or bad. I have no knowledge of what its like to do law, but you don't have to be an over emotional do-gooder to do medicine. You do have to give a **** at some point though. It's hard when you're a parent but not impossible, depends what support you have around you.

It seems like you want to do medicine/law because you're clever and don't know what else to do. Medicine can be amazing, and I genuinely love my job. But sometimes its awful, and it isn't my IQ that keeps me going. Why not find something you actually want to do?
Reply 49
Original post by Lionheartat20
Just to clarify, you got into Australian medical schools? (As you have only recently decided to come to the UK) - what is the competition like over there? It's rather competitive to get into a UK medical schools so perhaps would require a little more than "very little effort" :smile:

Any particular reason why you don't want to work in the NHS? Would that mean you plan to travel back to Australia as soon as you qualify? You usually do two foundation years within the NHS (since you only 'provisionally' are a doctor when you leave medical school).



Based on that, law does sound the better option in my honest opinion. Medicine will take up a lot of your free time in terms of revising / essays etc which if you are not particularly bothered about the course, perhaps you would struggle to be motivated for the 5 year course?

To be honest, you sound like you are more interested in private work rather than helping patients, and that's not going to go down well on this forum / U.K. generally. Most private work in the U.K. is well past medical school and you will have sooo much work to do before then.


I think you may be right, the more I think about it the less keen I am to do medicine here for the reason that the public service is so flawed. My husband has suggested going to australia and just taking one of the courses there (it's practically free, employment will be more pleasant and so on) but he's lived in Britain his whole life and he's a solicitor so it's not like he's going to find an interesting job in Australia so it's just to selfish to go back. So I'll be stuck in the NHS for life pretty much. Not a nice prospect but I could live with it if I couldn't find a viable alternative.

On some points of confusion:
Yes, I did get into Australian schools (4, although I did apply to all of them with a possible maximum of 6 offers) and one British school by some miracle. As far as competitiveness goes, it's very different to Britain. In Australia you are ranked both in your A levels and you UMAT (like a UKCAT) so the universities just throw away applications that aren't within the top percentile usually, then they interview you to make sure that you're not a psychopath and they give you offers with the offers going first to the applicants with the highest grades. My take on that is that medical school is only open to people who have actually put in the time and it is therefore less competitive becuase you don't need any work experience, references, connections or personal statement. In that sense it takes less effort to get in as well, you just put in your 16 hour days for one year and study for the UMAT for like two months and that's it, unless you've been really stupid and not taken chemistry, there is little reason why you shouldn't get in. In contrast the only school that offered me a place in the uk had 10 applicants for every place (that's only for internationals though) and they interviewed five for every place so it seemed like anybody's game until I got my offer. That said though it only took slightly more effort (I wrote a personal statement) to get in, although it is worth noting that I only got one place.

In regards to taking up a lot of time, I would work a solid fifteen hour day regardless of which course I'm doing because it would be stupid not to. My concern is the amount of time I would be able to spend studying at home so that I can still see my baby and feed him instead of running around lectures and expressing breast milk when I had time. What is your experience here? I would assume you're from the medical camp so a realistic view of how much time I would spend in structured study each year would be awesome.
Reply 50
Original post by TheOneTrueEvian
Don't do law, do medicine.

You've asked this in the medicine forum, so you're going to get people who have been rejected/tried their nuts off to get in, relatively furious at your apparent lack of passion to save the world.

Medicine is a good degree which leads to a job. It's very cliquey as a cohort - you will almost exclusively be friends with other medics. Being a doctor is a cosy and well-paid career. You don't just have to work for the NHS, you can work anywhere in the world as a qualified doctor - Australia, the states etc...This is just not so as a lawyer, where you would be confined to practice within the UK.

Having taken a law degree, I think most people either hate it or are lukewarm about it at best. It does not lead to a career. City firms take 50% of their intake from non-law courses. Non-law courses have higher module grades and much higher %s of firsts/2:1s than law. So you will be competing with people who have achieved less than you, but are considered better than you. It does not really matter how well you do in medicine as long as you pass.

Your idea of what it is like to be a lawyer is also a bit misjudged I think....but long story short, go for medicine and don't look back. Don't worry about your confidence with your career direction - it is very common at your age/when you're even older, don't listen to other people telling you you're not grateful/don't have the necessary passion for it.


You've hit the nail on the head there for me, I just don't feel like I know what to expect with law but I'm worried that by choosing the safe option I'm wasting a great opportunity. Are you/have you studied either law or medicine? What were your feelings about it?
Reply 51
Original post by Iridescenzo
Are you insane? Do you realise how late city firms work? One of my friends at DWF has been coming home from the office at 1 am, every night, for 2 weeks.


That's the thing, I don't know, that's why I've asked for advice, thanks btw, what you've said is very useful.

Does anyone have any info on working hours for training doctors?
Reply 52
Original post by brownbearxo
I dont think she should do either tbh. But she didnt give us that option lol


Good point, any suggestions?
Reply 53
Original post by ennahaspatience
Preach! A lazy and uncaring GP almost cause my friend's little cousin to go deaf


I'm not arguing, I've experienced some pretty bad GPs over here (I once went to a GP who measured my husband's BP as 140/98, or something along those lines, at any rate it was far too high. She checked it and then just said everything was fine and moved on. She was lazy, she didn't do her job. That's where I feel all this caring for your patients stuff gets the system into trouble. If you pick applicants on that basis you'll have trouble because a large number of people will become disillusioned a few years down the line, at least that's what I've noticed in friends and so on. A good doctor cares about their career first and foremost and respects their patient enough to be honest. A good doctor would never end up in trouble because they came into the profession to be a professional and to know their stuff, not to hold people's hands. As far as I'm concerned, if you want to have an emotional connection with your patients, you're better suited to nursing. If you want an academic career in healthcare, then you should be a doctor.
Reply 54
Original post by 322394
... In addition to this I have also been presented with the opportunity to study law is a well reputed law school...


One clarificatory question - when you say you have been presented with the opportunity to study law at a well reputed law school, which one are you referring to? Because the university you go to matters a whole lot more in law than in medicine.
Reply 55
Original post by Sarky
You have the cynicism of a doctor without the experience. I don't know whether that is good or bad. I have no knowledge of what its like to do law, but you don't have to be an over emotional do-gooder to do medicine. You do have to give a **** at some point though. It's hard when you're a parent but not impossible, depends what support you have around you.

It seems like you want to do medicine/law because you're clever and don't know what else to do. Medicine can be amazing, and I genuinely love my job. But sometimes its awful, and it isn't my IQ that keeps me going. Why not find something you actually want to do?


Thanks, good advice. Luckily this is the first child on both sides so the grandparents are keen to help. I should clarify for everyone that it's not that I don't want to do medicine. I actually find it quite interesting, naturally I've already started studying it. In Australia I was quite keen. Of course most cases aren't that fascinating but I don't think I'd get bored either. But not be able to find self sufficient employment does put me off. I don't want to be stuck in the public sector, particularly not in a system like the NHS for the rest of my life. However, there is always the possibility that it isn't as bad as I think it is...anyone from overseas working/studying the NHS at the moment? How does it compare? Are the paitents here as bad as they seem?
Reply 56
Original post by 322394
Thanks, good advice. Luckily this is the first child on both sides so the grandparents are keen to help. I should clarify for everyone that it's not that I don't want to do medicine. I actually find it quite interesting, naturally I've already started studying it. In Australia I was quite keen. Of course most cases aren't that fascinating but I don't think I'd get bored either. But not be able to find self sufficient employment does put me off. I don't want to be stuck in the public sector, particularly not in a system like the NHS for the rest of my life. However, there is always the possibility that it isn't as bad as I think it is...anyone from overseas working/studying the NHS at the moment? How does it compare? Are the paitents here as bad as they seem?


The NHS is, conceptually, the single most glorious institution the UK has ever invented. Free healthcare for all, what an amazing system! But of course it has its problems - it is over-used and under-funded, and junior doctors have to work ridiculous hours. But the bad things get all the publicity of course, after all when did good news constitute news as far as the media is concerned?

Many doctors work in both the NHS and the private sector.

I don't see how the patients can be the bad thing - they are just people with their own flaws, just like you would find in any country.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 57
I sure would love to be forced to pay £1000 for an IV of saline. :rolleyes:
....Or you could just become an independent Avon representative?
Original post by 322394
You've hit the nail on the head there for me, I just don't feel like I know what to expect with law but I'm worried that by choosing the safe option I'm wasting a great opportunity. Are you/have you studied either law or medicine? What were your feelings about it?


Law. I got a first. It's boring. When you get into it, I suppose there are elements which are enjoyable/likeable.

The idea that most people know what they want to do at 17 is simply not true. Most people who *think* they know what they want to do at that age often change their minds down the road. Which is why I have little sympathy for bratty 17-22 year olds telling you you are ungrateful. People change. People make different decisions in time. In other countries, medicine is a postgrad degree, taken after undergrad. As is law.

Whilst being a doctor is a good job, of course there are horrendous elements to it. You should go in with your eyes open, which you seem to be. A large part of my law degree involved stressed doctors who were overworked and made mistakes. Many key cases in employment law surround this - the working hours they are expected to pull. And in tort in terms of the strenuous duty of care owed. In *any* client facing role you are going to be stressed and come up against difficult people.

However, on balance, it is still an excellent job. The pay is generous. It's a job for life. It's respected. I've worked in several investment banks since leaving university - you have no idea how bad it is. You want to know how crap other careers can be - go take some work experience just for your own enlightenment. Being a doctor is a good gig.

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