Woman gives herself 7 abortions.

Yes. There's no strong discussions about it. You can easily scan their brain.

if the sperm and egg are joined this is essentially a fetus, and is the point at which life is definitely created.

You know that eggs and sperm are already living cells? Until it is born a foetus is essentially an unconscious parasite, not a person.

Yes. There's no strong discussions about it. You can easily scan their brain.

Yes, but separately they cannot form a fetus. The child never asked to be conceived.

I'm writing an essay about this at the moment, and am currently reading a book in which the author suggests that the moment the fetus becomes conscious is the moment when it's not ok to abort it. This seems absurd to me because

1: they aren't even entirely sure when consciousness begins, and if it beings at say, 40 days, can you really say it's ok to abort a fetus at 39 days? It seems like a very vague and problematic argument

2: There are individuals that are unconscious, surely you wouldn't say it's ok to kill them, especially those individuals that are only temporarily unconscious and will eventually regain consciousness (which is how I would best describe a fetus)

Yes, but separately they cannot form a fetus. The child never asked to be conceived.

You were arguing that abortion was wrong because a foetus is a living thing, not because it is a foetus - though I suppose you might accuse me of arguing semantics here. Surely it would be better if a foetus was born into an environment where it was wanted and where the parent/s were in a position to raise it adequately?

You know that eggs and sperm are already living cells? Until it is born a foetus is essentially an unconscious parasite, not a person.

Showing my ignorance here a bit, but of a fetus? It all just seems a bit arbitrary to me.

On a similar subject I watched a Louis Theroux episode (number 2 in LA Stories) and they showed a guy who they claimed would never make a recovery. It was heartbreaking to see how his family couldn't accept this, and you had so much sympathy for how they felt, and then he woke up and a few weeks later he was walking.

So much stuff is just too difficult to do in an arbitrary way.

Why will abortion always happen? Because uneducated people will continue to breed without considering the consequences?

Well that's just it if we have deterrents and consequences in place people will either have to face the music or just man-up and actually care for the child, their child. I think that any woman who has sex should be prepared to have a baby in case contraception fails. As a society we've become immoral and too lax when it comes to sex.

I think it speaks volumes that you compared abortion with prostitution least of all because both are morally questionable actions.

I think implying that people will go to back-alley abortion clinics is just scare-mongering, I don't doubt some would opt for risque abortions however is it really any different than it is now?

Prison is the current punishment for murder.

Allow me to repeat this for a fourth (?) time: A fetus has a lower chance of being born to a knowing woman than a pupil who studies in one of the Top 55 schools in Britain graduating with a British university degree (from a Top 30 university even).

You need to be consistent. By your logic, we should be granting those students automatically a Russell Group degree.

Sorry, perhaps I should have stated that the reason I think abortion is wrong is because a fetus will always turn into a sentient being - so even though sperm and egg are living cells, they can only ever develop into a sentient, worthwhile thing by joining together. Given the choice, I think the fetus would rather take a chance with adoptive parents or some other support system than have its life snuffed out completely. And honestly, in the developed world there is enough access to contraception to stop unwanted children being conceived. I know there are some accidents and situations like rape, etc, but it's rare and does not support the current abortion figures. The point is that a fetus will be a human being separate from it's mother one day, and should not have to suffer the price for that mother's irresponsibility.

Research have actually shown that it's more than likely that a fetus actually is unconscious before they were born, or at least it has to be after the third trimester. But if it's not enough assurance, they don't even begin developing a minimal brain stem until after seven weeks, with pain requiring a neocortex, which only develops after early third trimester.

It's very different. A person who's already born actually has a brain, a fetus may not.

Of course you may then argue that souls could exist and that brains may not be needed for consciousness or pain. Which would be absurd, but still, would still not be an argument, because there's no way of knowing when a 'soul' is being formed in this case. A 'soul' can be formed when a sperm is being formed.

You were arguing that abortion was wrong because a foetus is a living thing, not because it is a foetus - though I suppose you might accuse me of arguing semantics here. Surely it would be better if a foetus was born into an environment where it was wanted and where the parent/s were in a position to raise it adequately?

They know around when there will be a consciousness that feels pain. At the very least there needs to be a brain and/or nerves to be developed.

And yes, if it means 40 days, then 39 days is perfectly fine. In what way would that be 'problematic' especially considering how you can even be safer and date it a week earlier. It's no difference from someone fulfilling a financial requirement can ge grants, or someone with a certain UCAS points can gain a degree place, and anyone who's just shy of it cannot.

A fetus being 'unconscious' is not the same as a person being unconscious. The former would be more similar to someone who's brain dead. And yes, if s/he's brain dead, s/he should have his/her 'life' ended.

You are once again arguing about your so-called potentiality. I already have addressed it. If a fetus should be considered a human because of the potential of being one, a school leaver with an unconditional offer should be considered a university graduate, or one who gets an offer to read at one of the Top 55 schools that is.

This line of reasoning makes absolutely no sense to me in the slightest

Don't worry about the souls argument. Lol, like I said I'm not religious.

But yeah, all I'm saying is its difficult to draw a "line" and if it has been drawn it might not have been drawn in the right place. One thing I know for sure is that too many abortions happen in the UK, beside everything else it pisses me off that I have to hear drunk girls moaning about how tough their life is because of it the whole ****ing time.

There are many things in life that could be made 'better.' Yet opting for the destruction of life because an ideal situation can not be rendered seems fanatically and dangerously Utopian in outlook.