Mustard_Man Link In Sigature

I read that link you posted Mustard-man and was actually shocked by such in depth analysis but that's not why I posted this... I posted this to prove Nikk wrong :wink:

...

(If you don't want to read the link in MM's signature... It was about a treatment for acne - "isotretinoin")

Nikk said in a post that "there was a higher incidence of suicide in people with who took isotretinoin than the normal population", which he said proved that there was a link with depression and the drug...

I would suggest that any increase suicide rate could be explained by a whole number of factors, which seem to have been ignored...

Obviously, that people with acne having a higher of chance of anxiety, depression and other problems e.g. bullying at school, which would collective explain the slightly higher suicide rates... and so it would lead me to believe that it is 'acne' and associated issues with having the acne that causes depression and not the drug treatment...

There is no causal relationship to suggest that there is a link and so you can't state there is one...

Studies have also shown that successful treatment of severe acne with isotretinoin has been shown to reduce anxiety and depression, which is the opposite of what you've been saying...

To put it another way... if you did a study of people with acne and people who didn't have acne then I assure you the suicide rates in the group with acne would be higher... but this doesn't mean that acne causes suicide...

It's like when you pick up the Daily Mail and it says... "Coffee causes cancer"... then you read the article and it says "studies have shown that coffee drinkers have an X percent increase chance of getting cancer"...

But this doesn't mean that coffee causes cancer, caffeine is not a carcinogenic...

The reason that people who cofffee drinkers have a higher rate of cancer is that coffe drinkers smoke a lot more cigarettes than non coffee drinkers... it has nothing to do with the coffee

Scientifically proven a link is a complex issue... you need to have a proven theory to and scienfic proof behind the mechanism that would explain your results are due to something to prove a causal link... And even then it can be proven wrong later...

Be wary of stating fact about unproven link because in truth no one really knows the answer for sure... Writing rubbish scientific papers about unproven links, with incorrect made-up theories to fit the results and going around stating that they are definitely fact has damaging consequences e.g. with MMR and autism - just look what happened to Andrew Wakefield's carreer!...

Reply 1

nikk

OMG, I haven't checked his sig, but I think I posted the post you are talking about over a year ago! :eek:

I'm not an expect on the matter, I just repeated what the doctor told me and what it said on the leaflets I was given.

I know that in my case it definitely did cause depression. And I am pretty convinced it wasn't to do with any other factors; my life was actually pretty good at the time, and the depression varied depending on the dosage I was taking (I would feel really down a few days after taking a larger dose (I was on a variable dose). The depression completely disappeared a week or two after finishing taking them. As I say, I am not an expert on this matter, but in my case depression is definitely linked. This is also what my consultant told me and the leaflets I had at the time. I even had to sign a disclaimer to say that if I killed myself then the NHS wouldn't be responsible as they had informed me of the risks.

Reply 2

Revenged

nikk

OMG, I haven't checked his sig, but I think I posted the post you are talking about over a year ago! :eek:

lol... i can't believe you had to sign a disclamer - it's overkill for acne don't you think - i hoped it worked...
I dunno how my post turned into such an essay btw... I guess it comes with a symptom of dossing around all summer...

Anywayz, i'll give you a story...

I remember a few years ago I had eczema... I went to the doctor all the time for it and gradually went though all the useless creams doctors give you... Had I known what some of the rubbish was that was given to me (like E45) then i probably would have punched my GP...

but at that time i was still a stupid naive teenager... i followed everything the doc gave me and it didn't just not work it got worse... eventually i just stopped taking the creams i was given - they were all crap...

then one day i got a really serious ear infection, which i had for about 3 weeks later... (antibiotics weren't working either - but that is another story!)

in the end of this i was so terrified of getting an ear infection i stopped going swimming...the eczema then cleared up about a week after i stopped and has never returned...

funny how live is ain't it... I haven't been swimming for approx 3-4 years!

moral of the story: don't take medicines doctors give you and don't exercise :rofl:

Reply 3

Mustard-man

looooool

Didn't know this thread was created until widowmaker told me :p:

I'll read later when I have time, looks interesting :biggrin:

Reply 4

Mustard-man

nikk

OMG, I haven't checked his sig, but I think I posted the post you are talking about over a year ago! :eek:

I have been on full dosage for the last month or so. So far I have not experienced any form of depression. My mood swings have been relatively stable, I have not had any suicide thoughts or anything.

I did not have to sign anything, which was a bit suprising as I have read in many places that you have to. Perhaps the drug has changed or something, I don't know. I asked the dermatologist about depression, she said that she had only come across a couple of cases throughout her 40 year experience. She said that she had not come across any suicide cases at all.

Reply 5

nikk

Revenged

lol... i can't believe you had to sign a disclamer - it's overkill for acne don't you think - i hoped it
worked...

I'm not so sure... apparently it was almost banned, and I heard it is actually banned in some countries. My doctor told me that a comprimise was made where patients would only be perscribed one month at a time and have to go for a check-up in between perscriptions. This isn't only to do with a risk of depression, but the drug is also known to give your liver hell and there used to be (before monthly blood-tests became compulsory) many cases of liver damage.

As with any drug, it is a very individual thing. You can never predict which people may or may not suffer some particular known side-effects. Some people won't have any problems, whereas others will have to be taken off the medication prematurely.

My personal feelings are that isotretonin (sp?) is fairly safe to use, provided you have regular check-ups and blood tests. The risk is also managed by the fact that many consultants not (in most cases) perscribing the drug to people in high-risk categories (history of depression, liver disease, others I can't remember).

Oh, and yep it worked a treat thanks! The acne has been completely gone for over a year! Yay!

Revenged